Giro d'Italia / Tour de France

[Pompey Wolf]

Yeah it's 2 flat ones after tomorrow before the Jura at the weekend. To be honest I think he's done whatever is to come tomorrow although as you say not exactly one you can just 'get through' anyway.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

btw anyone who thinks Le Tour is just about the Alps and Pyrenees needs to look at the two Jura stages. My God. Saturday is tough and then Sunday is utterly insane.

 

[Pompey Wolf]

I think Sunday's final climb (Mont du Chat?) was in the final stage of this years Dauphine. It looked absolutely horrendous.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Yes - has to be the toughest climb in France.

Brilliant scenery as well

 

[nimrod]

in recent years I've prob been more interested in Cav and Sagan than anything else going on in the tour, so a particularly shit day.

 

[Johnny75]

Shame about Sagan but very naughty to throw the elbow after he'd put the two FDJ riders on the deck too.

Looking forward to the first real fight tomorrow and I think Sky may have a crack at the Jura this weekend to put pressure on Quintana and Porte.

Question for those who know more than me; has anybody who's fairly average in the mountains but had a beast of a team on the flat/ time trial stages ever won the tour?

 

[machin05]

Looked to me, in real time, like his elbow came out after the collision as a natural balancing aid. Full DQ seems harsh. Really shitty for Cav though after the past few months.

 

[Johnny75]

Looked to me, in real time, like his elbow came out after the collision as a natural balancing aid. Full DQ seems harsh. Really $#@!ty for Cav though after the past few months.

I think he got the full dq because of the amount of people he put on the deck and forcing Cav into the barrier. Not really on.

 

[machin05]

I think he got the full dq because of the amount of people he put on the deck and forcing Cav into the barrier. Not really on.

Looked like Sagan was forced over because of a lunge toward him from the left. Not sure he was completely aware of Cav's position.

 

[Johnny75]

Looked like Sagan was forced over because of a lunge toward him from the left. Not sure he was completely aware of Cav's position.

Not sure I agree with that, he got himself boxed off and fought his way through. But he'd already caused a crash earlier on and I think it's the combination of all of it that gets him done.

 

[BillyDee]

Confirmed Cav out with a broken scapula, though no nerve damage and no surgery required.

 

[Wombat del combate]

Question for those who know more than me; has anybody who's fairly average in the mountains but had a beast of a team on the flat/ time trial stages ever won the tour?

You could argue that Indurain did that; smash the TT and ride defensively otherwise.

 

[Pompey Wolf]

Sagan is one of my favourite sportsmen so this is the explanation I want to believe but it just doesn't quite look like that to me. It looks like he drifts over the road and then needlessly throws the elbow to defend his position, didn't look like he was going down to me.

In answer to Johnny's question earlier I would say Wiggins to be honest.

 

[machin05]

http://www.velonews.com/2017/07/commentary/jury-wrong-sagans-dsq_442744

 

[Johnny75]

http://www.velonews.com/2017/07/commentary/jury-wrong-sagans-dsq_442744

That's quite amusing. Reminds of 'what have the romans ever done for us?'

Starts off saying nobody knows who caused the crash, then moves to Sagan did deviate off his line and ends up at, whether the elbow made contact or not it's a disqualification if he meant it.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

You could argue that Indurain did that; smash the TT and ride defensively otherwise.

Could say Roche did the same as well just hang in there on the mountains as he knew he would have them on the TT

 

[machin05]

That's quite amusing. Reminds of 'what have the romans ever done for us?'

Starts off saying nobody knows who caused the crash, then moves to Sagan did deviate off his line and ends up at, whether the elbow made contact or not it's a disqualification if he meant it.

Yeah, it's not the most brililantly written piece. A bit rushed, perhaps. But I agree with the point it's making in that it's far too inconclusive to throw the book at Sagan.

I still reckon the full DQ is harsh, especially as a speical case upgrade on the original sanction. Looking at the gif on that page, Cav was gone before the elbow came out and to me it looks like Sagan is using it to balance after Cav leans into him in a last gasp attemt to stay on two wheels. As Sagan's elbow comes out so does his left knee, again to provide a stabilising, balancing effect.

 

[nimrod]

Yeah, it's not the most brililantly written piece. A bit rushed, perhaps. But I agree with the point it's making in that it's far too inconclusive to throw the book at Sagan.

I still reckon the full DQ is harsh, especially as a speical case upgrade on the original sanction. Looking at the gif on that page, Cav was gone before the elbow came out and to me it looks like Sagan is using it to balance after Cav leans into him in a last gasp attemt to stay on two wheels. As Sagan's elbow comes out so does his left knee, again to provide a stabilising, balancing effect.

you're not alone.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tou...ent-shocked-by-peter-sagans-disqualification/

 

[Johnny75]

you're not alone.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tou...ent-shocked-by-peter-sagans-disqualification/

I've read some of the comments below the article and they make the E&S bellends look reasonable. Having watched the loop footage that's around on twitter I think Sagan is still at fault but maybe not as harsh as I first thought.

The time penalty, demotion to last and -80 points would probably have been fair.

I can't see how Sagan is cycling's biggest star though. I just don't understand how sprinters could ever be the biggest stars of the teams they're in as by definition they can really only do one thing.

 

[nimrod]

You could argue that Indurain did that; smash the TT and ride defensively otherwise.

true about (generally) defensive riding, though i couldn't describe him as average in the mountains. i don't think he won many stages but i'm sure there were a few mountain stages he gained time on his rivals, including climbers, which i don't think an average mountain rider could have done. i think he rode intent on conserving energy probably in the knowledge he could have a bad day. he did struggle in the bjarne riis EPO tour win, and from then on i think it's been hard to judge the relative merits of riders.