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[Wolf Hunting]

I think VAR should be taken out of the hands of referees.
Sure the operating panel should have a good idea of what's happening, so maybe ex players or not, I'm not too sure. but certainly someone that has no allegiance.
I'd open up the conversation to the crowd, full transparency really, but how did they introduce it in Rugby?
Fucking ignorant and stupid to be frightened of the crowd hearing your rationale when it exists perfectly alongside (Rugby).
Why can't that system be introduced? Have a look at what they're scared of and fix that too.
Do away with the current protocol and just have it as 'IS THIS THE RIGHT DECISION?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

We had wank decisions without VAR, and we'll get wank decisions with VAR. There are clearly fewer incorrect calls going through now, but the wank calls are wanker because they're less excusable - penalties that you can forgive being given in real time that really should be overturned with the benefit of technology shouldn't happen. The bar for reversing calls is far too high. Fuck 'clear and obvious' - it shouldn't have to be a howler, it can just be wrong and put right. The VAR should be a lot more comfortable in overriding a decision, as after all he has the best angles and the most time.

Surely as an onfield ref you'd rather the correct call was made than have to referee the rest of the game knowing a bad call has massively impacted things. You'd sleep a lot better knowing a mistake has been caught and put right within minutes, rather than knowing a mistake was allowed to pass and you're going to get slaughtered for the next few days?

Great post.

The idea that less senior refs are "scared" to overturn their more senior colleagues blows my mind, as it suggests that the senior ref would rather have his wrong decision stand than have it overturned, it does seem that this theory holds weight though as we've seen it so many times before. But it really speaks volumes of the character of the refs if this is how they work.

There can't be many other lines of employment where this happens.

 

[jd1981]

Great post.

The idea that less senior refs are "scared" to overturn their more senior colleagues blows my mind, as it suggests that the senior ref would rather have his wrong decision stand than have it overturned, it does seem that this theory holds weight though as we've seen it so many times before. But it really speaks volumes of the character of the refs if this is how they work.

There can't be many other lines of employment where this happens.

It does often captains & co-pilots have similar issues, watch air crash investigation and often it’s pointed out captains not listening to the co etc.
Being in the police for a few years it’s not easy at all questioning a senior rank or more experienced colleague.
Junior doctors questioning senior doctors judgement.

 

[Tony Towner]

I've worked for at least 2 MDs where senior leadership meetings are performative exercises to agree with his opinion and any challenge to it is seen as an irritation. The Brian Clough approach if you will.

 

[Del Woppio]

Refs don't have that kind of seniority difference though, they're all the same rank so it's not like standing up to your boss. It's like Chantelle in credit control not correcting Brenda just because she's been there longer.

 

[BillyDee]

It was certainly reported that when linos got upgraded to assistant referees, certain refs would tell them to stick to offsides and line calls, and to not flag fouls or anything else.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It does often captains & co-pilots have similar issues, watch air crash investigation and often it’s pointed out captains not listening to the co etc.
Being in the police for a few years it’s not easy at all questioning a senior rank or more experienced colleague.
Junior doctors questioning senior doctors judgement.

Yeah can see your point there, not sure the seniority is the same with refs though, they're all at the same level, they aren't on different pay grades?

Edit: Del made the point better

 

[Del Woppio]

Standard

 

[jd1981]

Refs don't have that kind of seniority difference though, they're all the same rank so it's not like standing up to your boss. It's like Chantelle in credit control not correcting Brenda just because she's been there longer.

No but if you’re new through the door it’s extremely difficult to start questioning an old timer who’s the equivalent who everyone else respects.
From experience being new through the door means towing the party line and adopting the new unofficial rule book you can go against the grain obviously but you’ll often alienate yourself and be seen as a non team player.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

The VAR Review: Was Arsenal anger over Newcastle's goal justified?

What happened with Newcastle United's winning goal against Arsenal, plus possible red cards for Kai Havertz and Bruno Guinares, and Manchester United's disallowed goal.

www.espn.com

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Catching up a bit as been away for the weekend, how did they decide this wasn't a push by Joelinton?

 

[Carrotdude]

I don’t think it’s as bad as the still makes it look as Gabriel is already on his way down and jumping towards the ball when Joelinton puts his hands on him but it’s still a foul

 

[PuntsWolf]

From memory I thought he was only really resting his hands on him rather than a massive push, so wasn’t too fussed about the decision. But I’m massively biased so not the most objective viewpoint admittedly

 

[fansagainstvar]

I think VAR should be taken out of the hands of referees.
Sure the operating panel should have a good idea of what's happening, so maybe ex players or not, I'm not too sure. but certainly someone that has no allegiance.
I'd open up the conversation to the crowd, full transparency really, but how did they introduce it in Rugby?
Fucking ignorant and stupid to be frightened of the crowd hearing your rationale when it exists perfectly alongside (Rugby).
Why can't that system be introduced? Have a look at what they're scared of and fix that too.
Do away with the current protocol and just have it as 'IS THIS THE RIGHT DECISION?

Correct decisions are often subjective because football's laws were designed to be interpreted rather than black and white.

Causes a major problem if we are now saying there is an outright "correct" answer. I've seen on twitter for example where half of people think something is a penalty and half don't.

What is deliberate?
What is a foul?


Every fan has their own interpretation just like every referee does. You just hand the interpretation over to someone miles away..

Everyone on here disagrees with me but I think looking at things in slow motion is bullshit. Football happens at life speed not slow motion yet they get judged on slow motion which makes things look worse.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

That's flawed though.

In real time Hwang vs Schär looks like a penalty because it looks like he's miscontrolled it (he did) and he's hoofed him trying to clear it (he didn't). As was my real time take inside the ground, just so you don't throw your armchair tag at me

Slow motion proves pretty easily that didn't happen and it's not a penalty.

Now of course they cocked it up anyway but slow motion isn't the issue here.

 

[fansagainstvar]

That's flawed though.

In real time Hwang vs Schär looks like a penalty because it looks like he's miscontrolled it (he did) and he's hoofed him trying to clear it (he didn't). As was my real time take inside the ground, just so you don't throw your armchair tag at me

Slow motion proves pretty easily that didn't happen and it's not a penalty.

Now of course they cocked it up anyway but slow motion isn't the issue here.

It's not THE issue, but for handballs in my opinion slow motion makes things look far more deliberate than they look real time.

Honestly I think some of the handballs VAR has given are so utterly ridiculous.

Defenders defending with their arms behind their back is just another sign the sport is in the mud at PL level.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

David Luiz was doing the weirdo hands behind the back 10 years ago.

I don't deny there are problems with VAR but to conflate every single other problem with it is misguided at best.

You're honestly saying show every incident at 100% speed, ever? Really? There are no incidents where slow motion helps?

 

[fansagainstvar]

David Luiz was doing the weirdo hands behind the back 10 years ago.

I don't deny there are problems with VAR but to conflate every single other problem with it is misguided at best.

You're honestly saying show every incident at 100% speed, ever? Really? There are no incidents where slow motion helps?

I would certainly at least like the banning of slow motion for handball decisions.

It should all be irrelevant because VAR should not exist. It's a cancer on the sport.

 

[AndyWolves]

I would certainly at least like the banning of slow motion for handball decisions.

It should all be irrelevant because VAR should not exist. It's a cancer on the sport.

Have you ever considered if VAR brings any benefit to the game? Even if it's something you know you don't believe, at least try to understand what benefits VAR brings to the game.

If you can occupy a position you don't agree with it helps you understand why people have different opinions to you.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But you're coming across as fanatical there, refusing to concede that VAR has helped in at least some way (it has) and that an improved version of it could help the game (it could) and clinging to the belief that you can put the genie back in the lamp (you can't).

Like I could have a reasoned discussion about immigration with a lot of people and happily concede that any position the UK has taken over the last say, 30 years hasn't been quite right, on either side. But I couldn't have a reasoned discussion about immigration with Nigel Farage or Suella Braverman. Because they're frothing maniacs.