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[ROVERT47]

I don’t think it’s so much that VAR is the problem after all virtually all fans wanted it implemented, it’s the fucking incompetent arseole’s that are controlling it.

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

I don't think that's the case here. Johnny is a STH, Paddy was until pretty recently, they are both in the user issue camp. I'm one as is Aiki who take an alternative view. I do think those who watch games on TV see it as part of the entertainment more than those who go and are largely left in the dark as to what is going on. Pretty sure someone said that earlier on this thread although I wouldn't say that's the general view of those on here

Armchair fan here bar the Brighton game this season, and I doubt you'll find many of us who can't get to games who think it adds anything positive to football. Maybe the foreign FiFA contingent who think any contact is a foul.

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

1) No offside lines. Naked eye only; benefit of the doubt goes to the attacker.
2) No "Clear & Obvious" standard for VAR to get involved.
3) The VAR is given the ability to overrule simple calls (throw ins, corners/goal kicks, etc.) unilaterally.
4) In-stadium officials communicate the exact incident being reviewed to match-going supporters.

Off the top o' me head.

As for who's running it, I don't have a scooby. But it can't be the idiots in charge now or anybody connected to them as an organization.

My 3rd especially would be absolute madness with the current crop of match officials.

Let's be honest... we're 4 years in and is anything getting better, are any of those changes likely to happen? If we can agree they are not then what is the better course of action?

1) get rid (perhaps until there is a independent VAR body established)
2) carry on as is - as looks to be the default for an indefinite period

 

[Alan]

Let's be honest... we're 4 years in and is anything getting better, are any of those changes likely to happen? If we can agree they are not then what is the better course of action?

1) get rid (perhaps until there is a independent VAR body established)
2) carry on as is - as looks to be the default for an indefinite period

He asked me how I'd do it, not how it's going to be.

 

[Johnny75]

Are you seriously enjoying football more because of VAR? Simple question

No but I don't enjoy it any less.

 

[Tredman]

No but I don't enjoy it any less.

Really? I do, the interminable delays and not having a clue what is happening while the said arm-chair fans, paying a lot less, get to watch sky and their commentators wank themselves silly over camera angles doesn’t do it for me.

 

[Paul]

Really? I do, the interminable delays and not having a clue what is happening while the said arm-chair fans, paying a lot less, get to watch sky and their commentators wank themselves silly over camera angles doesn’t do it for me.

You have a serious issue with people who don't or can't go, haven't you?

 

[Tredman]

You have a serious issue with people who don't or can't go, haven't you?

Nope

 

[Johnny75]

Really? I do, the interminable delays and not having a clue what is happening while the said arm-chair fans, paying a lot less, get to watch sky and their commentators wank themselves silly over camera angles doesn’t do it for me.

Not that it should balance the other out but the better behaviour on the pitch, especially the diving (less of it), less blatant dirty tackles and play acting makes it a far better watch.

I think the standard of play has gone up because of these things.

But I don't like the time taken for a decision or the blackout in the stadia where fans don't know what is going on. But that is fixable.

Returning to the bad old days is not an option.

 

[jd1981]

To get back on track I’ve said it already a simple change in the language in regards to direction of use will change things and see better decisions.
Numerous points can be put in place.
1. Further training on respect for colleagues
2. No communication between on field officials and VAR within 24 hours of the final whistle.
3. Remove “clear & obvious error” with “do you agree with the on field call” or “what’s your verdict” to VAR
4. Officials complaining to colleagues about decisions made will be met with disciplinary action.
5. Extreme circumstances allow the game to pulled back even after a re-start in play ie Spurs v Liverpool scenario. Obviously not 10-15 minutes but if a severe error is discovered seconds after the re-start stop the game.
6. On field officials to make decisions in the assumption that VAR doesn’t exist.

All the above removes ambiguity, fear of upsetting colleagues and the use of common sense and allows the referee to be a referee.
The biggest one is the change of language in the current state you’ve got 2 levels of subjectivity (a) the actual decision, (b) is an obvious error all this under the pressure of time scale.

 

[Tredman]

Not that it should balance the other out but the better behaviour on the pitch, especially the diving (less of it), less blatant dirty tackles and play acting makes it a far better watch.

I think the standard of play has gone up because of these things.

But I don't like the time taken for a decision or the blackout in the stadia where fans don't know what is going on. But that is fixable.

Returning to the bad old days is not an option.

I agree with some of that, diving has certainly got better - probably more convincing if not less of it.

 

[Tony Towner]

3. Remove “clear & obvious error” with “do you agree with the on field call” or “what’s your verdict” to VAR

The issue with this is what happens when it becomes subjective? You could have the onfield ref with one opinion and the VAR with another. Clear and obvious was implemented to prevent situations like Mahrez's penalty against us. Atkinson didn't think it was, but VAR overruled him, je shool his head once it was given and was visibily pissed off, it's one that could be given or not and the decision would have been justified either way.

Answering my own question I guess the answer is the monitor with the onfield ref making the decsion, but the there needs to be a shift in culture from getting sent to the screen means you need to change your decision. It in all likelihood also means even longer delays

 

[Tony Towner]

I agree with some of that, diving has certainly got better - probably more convincing if not less of it.

I'd struggle to be convinced that there is less diving when we've conceded back to back penalties because of dives. I think it was Danny Murphy who said giving penalties for that will just encourage more of it

 

[jd1981]

The issue with this is what happens when it becomes subjective? You could have the onfield ref with one opinion and the VAR with another. Clear and obvious was implemented to prevent situations like Mahrez's penalty against us. Atkinson didn't think it was, but VAR overruled him, it's one that could be given or not and the decision would have been justified either way.

Answering my own question I guess the answer is the monitor with the onfield ref making the decsion, but the there needs to be a shift in culture from getting sent to the screen means you need to change your decision. It in all likelihood also means even longer delays

That’s what im saying VAR says, with the benefit of replays I think you might want to look again, this offers the ref to review his call and either stick or twist, at least then we know VAR has gone through the process and highlighted a possible error.

 

[Tredman]

I'd struggle to be convinced that there is less diving when we've conceded back to back penalties because of dives. I think it was Danny Murphy who said giving penalties for that will just encourage more of it

Possibly, I don’t think either were dives as such - the players were going down regardless. If they are dived they were certainly better than the Michael Owen style specials which used to be awarded.

 

[jd1981]

Players dive now in a less obvious way they do it now to initiate contact, players are clever and adapt. The days of Luis Suarez hurling himself to the ground are gone but others have crept in.

 

[Tony Towner]

Possibly, I don’t think either were dives as such - the players were going down regardless. If they are dived they were certainly better than the Michael Owen style specials which used to be awarded.

Schar's is definitely a dive imo, he anticipated contact and threw himself to the ground. If you are being generous you could say Baldock lost his balance I suppose

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Players dive now in a less obvious way they do it now to initiate contact, players are clever and adapt. The days of Luis Suarez hurling himself to the ground are gone but others have crept in.

All started with Robert Pires at Highbury against Portsmouth.

(Edit: wasn't at Highbury.)

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Certainly the first time I'd seen an attacking player initiate contact and go down I'm that manner.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1320405541944963072

 

[Del Woppio]

We had wank decisions without VAR, and we'll get wank decisions with VAR. There are clearly fewer incorrect calls going through now, but the wank calls are wanker because they're less excusable - penalties that you can forgive being given in real time that really should be overturned with the benefit of technology shouldn't happen. The bar for reversing calls is far too high. Fuck 'clear and obvious' - it shouldn't have to be a howler, it can just be wrong and put right. The VAR should be a lot more comfortable in overriding a decision, as after all he has the best angles and the most time.

Surely as an onfield ref you'd rather the correct call was made than have to referee the rest of the game knowing a bad call has massively impacted things. You'd sleep a lot better knowing a mistake has been caught and put right within minutes, rather than knowing a mistake was allowed to pass and you're going to get slaughtered for the next few days?