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Coronavirus

The poster boys for vaccinations, Israel are making mask wearing in public places mandatory again and probably also bringing in vaccine certificates for events. Admitting they de-restricted too much too soon. They've gone from single figures of cases to 700+ per day.
 
Surely it's the governments job to decide what is best for us as a whole? Is an individual really the best person to decide what is best for wider society? The government is in a position where they can call on the advise of the best scientific minds in the country, the average joe has to try to their own research.
I'd rather decide what's best for me and my family than Johnson and the rest of them.
 
I'd rather decide what's best for me and my family than Johnson and the rest of them.
I'm not talking about Johnson, I'm talking about the role of what government should be

I'm assuming that you don't have the necessary experience to know what is best, the government does have access that experience and they should use it.
 
Masks aren't compulsary because they would have needed support from the opposition benches to get it through. That's how we are being governed
 
I'm not talking about Johnson, I'm talking about the role of what government should be

I'm assuming that you don't have the necessary experience to know what is best, the government does have access that experience and they should use it.
Johnson and his cronies are the government at the moment. Sure Johnson has access to the experience, but I'm not confident in his ability to interpret what he's being told and make sensible decisions off the back of it. He's a satirical journalist for god's sake.

If we start to believe that the govt knows best and should be telling us how to live our lives, we are on a very short road to totalitarianism. I always used to wonder how societies like that came into being and assumed it could never happen to a country like ours. The last 18 months has shown me how easily it could happen, and it's quite scary, to me at least anyway.
 
Johnson and his cronies are the government at the moment. Sure Johnson has access to the experience, but I'm not confident in his ability to interpret what he's being told and make sensible decisions off the back of it. He's a satirical journalist for god's sake.

If we start to believe that the govt knows best and should be telling us how to live our lives, we are on a very short road to totalitarianism. I always used to wonder how societies like that came into being and assumed it could never happen to a country like ours. The last 18 months has shown me how easily it could happen, and it's quite scary, to me at least anyway.
The first paragraph is exactly my point, if anyone has a responsibility to know what's best for everyone it's the govt. But they're not doing that, they're pushing that responsibility down to individuals (for the reasons TT said).

Second paragraph is a bit tin hat to be honest. It's not a case of blindly believing what the govt says without challenge, it's recognising that experts tend to know more than the average Joe. The scary thing for me is that we are now in a society where everyone thinks they have an equally valid opinion on every subject - that's just not the case.
 
The inability to look beyond you and your family is precisely why the government needs to have a big role in events such as a pandemic.

The inherent shitness of this government shouldn't distract from the fact that leaving everyone to get on with their own business would have left thousands more dead, largely made up of people who don't have the luxury of keeping themselves safe.
 
They, including the chief medical officer etc, did advise that case numbers would continue to rise, and that's what we're seeing. I suspect there is a combination of some of the population will effectively have relaxed now, prior to july 19, as they don't see the point in waiting, and will feel they may as well return to "normal" now. Others will be confused by the exceptionally mixed and confused messaging. Others still will be on the bandwagon of ministers who were queuing up to announce to the press how they will celebrate burning their masks.

We know the delta/johnson variant (delete as applicable) is much more contagious. Therefore, the potential is cases will rise quicker than they have previously.

We have to hope that hospitalisations and deaths, which will inevitably rise, don't rise as they have done before.

The other risk, is the long term implications for people who fall ill. This to me is where we don't really have much information, and why there is still merit in some restrictions being in place. I can see the sense in re-opening any open air/outdoor stuff, and to an extent the indoor stuff - people will have to make decisions as to what they feel safe doing I guess, however a lot of us will be basing decisions on very limited information and understanding. We're not epidemiologists after all.

I do personally feel that masks wearing, and potentially some level of social distancing would be beneficial. Anecdotally, when I go for the daily walk, it does seem to me that people around here still are happy to give each other space, and I hope that continues.

A work colleague tested positive 3-4 weeks ago. Initially just felt like a cold, but got exponentially worse daily and they had 3-4 days off. They're back now, but still have no sense of taste or smell.
 
The first paragraph is exactly my point, if anyone has a responsibility to know what's best for everyone it's the govt. But they're not doing that, they're pushing that responsibility down to individuals (for the reasons TT said).

Second paragraph is a bit tin hat to be honest. It's not a case of blindly believing what the govt says without challenge, it's recognising that experts tend to know more than the average Joe. The scary thing for me is that we are now in a society where everyone thinks they have an equally valid opinion on every subject - that's just not the case.
On your second paragraph, I agree that a big part of the problem is that everyone thinks they are an expert now. That famous line from Gove during the referendum about people having had enough of experts would be more accurate if he'd have said, everyone thinks they are an expert now IMO.

I don't think it's tin pot to express concern over the fact that our freedom has been curtailed to a massive extent though. There are loads of things the government could conceivably do to make us even more safe than we are now, it doesn't mean they should.
 
The inability to look beyond you and your family is precisely why the government needs to have a big role in events such as a pandemic.

The inherent shitness of this government shouldn't distract from the fact that leaving everyone to get on with their own business would have left thousands more dead, largely made up of people who don't have the luxury of keeping themselves safe.
We have one of the highest death tolls in the world whilst also having had one of the most interventionist government responses to the pandemic.

So I don't accept your point that my inability to see beyond me and my family (if that was aimed at me) merits the stripping away of everyone's freedoms without any serious opposition.
 
We have one of the highest death tolls in the world whilst also having had one of the most interventionist government responses to the pandemic.

So I don't accept your point that my inability to see beyond me and my family (if that was aimed at me) merits the stripping away of everyone's freedoms without any serious opposition.
This government came to its hawkishness about lockdown very late indeed- really, it's only the horrendous wave of a few months ago that pushed them in that direction. Before that, it was constantly opening up before time, and locking down far after the point where lives could be saved.
 
I’ve had my say on the bbc this morning again against Sadiq Khan’s & Andy Burnham’s proposals for face coverings to remain mandatory on public transport. (Basically what i said earlier)

I also hope the continued threat of covid passports will get people to take the jab.
 
No. I am saying vaccine passports are unfair to those people and should not be implemented. I’m very much in the open everything up camp. We should have been restriction free in June.
 
No. I am saying vaccine passports are unfair to those people and should not be implemented. I’m very much in the open everything up camp. We should have been restriction free in June.
Surely any vaccine passport would have an "exempt on medical grounds" status and the individual would simply provide evidence of a negative test? Obviously the exemption would have to come from a Doctor and not just something any anti-vaxxer can claim.
 
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