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£20 per hour. That’s £800 per week. So £3200 per four weeks. Annual salary £41600. For picking fruit.

It’s demented.
 
£20 per hour. That’s £800 per week. So £3200 per four weeks. Annual salary £41600. For picking fruit.

It’s demented.

I think that would be a fair wage for that job given just how tough it is, but we all know wages are never fair
 
The problem is other industries would be decimated as the wages would be lower than the fruit pickers.
 
Tbf wage growth has stalled for years and years and years - it's like when tube drivers go on strike and people complain that they earn upwards of £45k a year, that's not the problem, the problem is wage growth has been structurally suppressed in almost every other sector that used to offer decent wages for manual work that requires technical know-how. I'm pretty cool with the person driving a complex train underground, full of hundreds of people, being paid well to do it safely and competently.

See also: the false dichotomy between "skilled" and "unskilled" work. And when it comes to picking fruit and veg, it's not really a casual job any more - it's not like picking your own strawberries. You have to be able to do it for multiple weeks on end in warm weather, at a consistent pace, such that it doesn't slow down the rest of the farming processes around you (many of which are mechanised, and/or uneconomical if performed at an amateur's pace). Those planes of Romanian agricultural workers were coming in a couple of weeks ago for that reason.
 
£20 per hour. That’s £800 per week. So £3200 per four weeks. Annual salary £41600. For picking fruit.

It’s demented.

In Ireland they offer something close to this for fruit pickers, but then deduct accommodation and bills from it, so the worker comes out with close to minimum wage.
 
Tbf wage growth has stalled for years and years and years - it's like when tube drivers go on strike and people complain that they earn upwards of £45k a year, that's not the problem, the problem is wage growth has been structurally suppressed in almost every other sector that used to offer decent wages for manual work that requires technical know-how. I'm pretty cool with the person driving a complex train underground, full of hundreds of people, being paid well to do it safely and competently.

See also: the false dichotomy between "skilled" and "unskilled" work. And when it comes to picking fruit and veg, it's not really a casual job any more - it's not like picking your own strawberries. You have to be able to do it for multiple weeks on end in warm weather, at a consistent pace, such that it doesn't slow down the rest of the farming processes around you (many of which are mechanised, and/or uneconomical if performed at an amateur's pace). Those planes of Romanian agricultural workers were coming in a couple of weeks ago for that reason.

What a terrible example to pick. Tube drivers base salary is £55K with the average last year at £75-80K.

For parity a nurse in London earns £24K in their first year and up to £37K. .

Bollocks to the tube drivers and their strikes they're in the top 25% of earners in the UK. Pay the nurses more not tube drivers

You also don't seem to understand the difference between skilled and unskilled. You don't need to have any skills to start a fruit pickers job but you do for a nurse/ plumber/ driver (which is oddly counted as unskilled)
 
What a terrible example to pick. Tube drivers base salary is £55K with the average last year at £75-80K.

For parity a nurse in London earns £24K in their first year and up to £37K. .

Bollocks to the tube drivers and their strikes they're in the top 25% of earners in the UK. Pay the nurses more not tube drivers

You also don't seem to understand the difference between skilled and unskilled. You don't need to have any skills to start a fruit pickers job but you do for a nurse/ plumber/ driver (which is oddly counted as unskilled)

Hah, I don't think we're disagreeing. Absolutely - pay the nurses more! But there isn't a zero-sum competition between the two. It's perfectly possible to have a society where the people who do the work get to keep the value they create with their labour. I know you hate socialialism, but I think one of the major, major failures of left-wing politics in general over the last few decades has been to completely cede ground to the right when it comes to the idea that "someone else" shouldn't get money or property you yourself worked to get, and to let socialism turn into some kind synonym for "high taxes". The whole point of socialism is that the people who do the work get to keep most of what they work for, and I think that should apply just as much whether you're a nurse or a tube driver or a coder or a teacher or an accountant or a lawyer. (What we will disagree on, I'm sure, is what counts as "keeping what you work for"...)

And unskilled versus skilled... again, I think we're agreeing. What gets labelled skilled or unskilled rarely has anything to do with whether something actually involves "skill". Even fruit pickers are skilled at what they do if they do it as a long-term seasonal job, even if you don't need any kind of qualification beyond being able-bodied to do it.
 
Hah, I don't think we're disagreeing. Absolutely - pay the nurses more! But there isn't a zero-sum competition between the two. It's perfectly possible to have a society where the people who do the work get to keep the value they create with their labour. I know you hate socialialism, but I think one of the major, major failures of left-wing politics in general over the last few decades has been to completely cede ground to the right when it comes to the idea that "someone else" shouldn't get money or property you yourself worked to get, and to let socialism turn into some kind synonym for "high taxes". The whole point of socialism is that the people who do the work get to keep most of what they work for, and I think that should apply just as much whether you're a nurse or a tube driver or a coder or a teacher or an accountant or a lawyer. (What we will disagree on, I'm sure, is what counts as "keeping what you work for"...)

And unskilled versus skilled... again, I think we're agreeing. What gets labelled skilled or unskilled rarely has anything to do with whether something actually involves "skill". Even fruit pickers are skilled at what they do if they do it as a long-term seasonal job, even if you don't need any kind of qualification beyond being able-bodied to do it.

Very much so.

On the skilled thing, being able bodied isn't a skill so fruit picking could never be called skilled. I would never call a footballer or politician a skilled profession either. A surgeon once said to me that they are manual labour, just very skilled. Made me smile.
 
Won't be £9 an hour, it will be minimum rate, not sure what that currently is £7.80?

No way I would do that if the taxpayer was furloughing me. Might have to reconsider when furlough ends and that unemployment rises to 3-4 Million later in the year. But, £9 might not even touch the mortgages etc
 
£20 per hour. That’s £800 per week. So £3200 per four weeks. Annual salary £41600. For picking fruit.

It’s demented.

But that £20 will go back into the economy in the form of tax. Harvesting in 26 degrees is not an easy job. Tax that will be needed. The NHS will need heavy investment and also the public sector needs funding. Recession should not eliminate pay rises and cause a race to the bottom. The tube drivers face danger every day. Ultimately it reduces consumption / waste and helps the climate. Pay more buy less. Economies of scale.
 
God Bless America - "A Waffle House restaurant worker says he was shot after telling a customer to wear a mask"
 
But that £20 will go back into the economy in the form of tax. Harvesting in 26 degrees is not an easy job. Tax that will be needed. The NHS will need heavy investment and also the public sector needs funding. Recession should not eliminate pay rises and cause a race to the bottom. The tube drivers face danger every day. Ultimately it reduces consumption / waste and helps the climate. Pay more buy less. Economies of scale.

So you want to pay fruit pickers nearly double what a newly qualified nurse gets. Okaaaaaay.
 
Public debt approaching £2 trillion, people can't go back to work because they won't leave children at unsafe schools and the BoE are not ruling out negative interest rates. Batten down the hatches this is going to be a big one and the after effect will kill far more than the virus.
 
That's very laudable. What about manufacturing that has just ceased to exist as virtually everyone on the shop floor gets more cashola picking strawberries for three months of the year.
 
That's very laudable. What about manufacturing that has just ceased to exist as virtually everyone on the shop floor gets more cashola picking strawberries for three months of the year.

The times they are a changing Paddy. Supply and demand. In the new normal, harvesting fruit may be more important than an industry that is reliant on consumption. Cosumption drives climate change. As I said before given what will need to be input into society the days when those in the middle had some disposable for the luxuries like holidays and cars will be long gone. You'll have those at the top and their corporation then a layer underneath (the beaurocrats, police and army) that will be paid well to keep the rest in tow. Mind you legislation now exists to easily facilitate that. Essentially what could now be seen as the current middle class (purely on income rather than social standing) will slowly merge with those below them. The end of consumption means the end of the 'middle classes'. The days of the commune is heading our way by 2030 - see Agenda21. The economy is completely and utterly unsustainable and it is destroying the planet.
 
It's perfectly possible to have a society where the people who do the work get to keep the value they create with their labour.

But surely much of that value is set aside to help the vulnerable in society or those that may be unemployable. The argument is how much value is set aside. Sooner or later resentment steps in.
 
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