Braga 3-3 Wolves: The Verdict
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Premier Quality
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Nope, and you’re entitled to your opinion regardless of why you have it.
I’d probably stop biting back at people though, and have a bit of a break before posting, as this thread is getting unnecessarily argumentative -and although that’s not entirely down to you, you are contributing to it.
I’d probably stop biting back at people though, and have a bit of a break before posting, as this thread is getting unnecessarily argumentative -and although that’s not entirely down to you, you are contributing to it.
jdrodrigues
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Forgot he had coached Hull at all.
Besides, he's had issues with most clubs' boards he worked in.
Premier Quality
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It's kinda in the name, mateSLB = Sport Lisboa e Benfica.
Yeah,I’ve had a long lie in this morning and am only half awake, should have twigged! Just saw the SL as sporting Lisbon without considering the B...
SSB
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I’ll put something on once today’s out of the way and I’ve caught up. It’s a busy old business supporting Wolves!
Monstrum
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I like the cut of SLB's jib, although I disagree with a lot of his opinions, its good entertainment. I also agree that a lot of member on this forum seem to think that their opinion is fact and that some are particularity annoying and quarrelsome.
Concerning Nuno, I have to agree he's made some tactical mistakes particularly with substitutions and formations/playstyle vs defensive oppostion and I disagree with his choice of a super thin squad. That being said, I think hes one of the top man managers in the world, and the confidence and outright transformation hes done with some of our less talented/interested players has been nothing short of miraculous. Nuno has a gift for spotting and developing players that very few other managers have, maybe only klop is better?
A mediocre championship side is now a top 6-8 premier league side and in the knockout stages of the europa league in a few short seasons. How many managers in the world could have done it? Benitez couldnt get Newcastle in europe, or even higher than 10th and hes considered one of the best for example.
Concerning Nuno, I have to agree he's made some tactical mistakes particularly with substitutions and formations/playstyle vs defensive oppostion and I disagree with his choice of a super thin squad. That being said, I think hes one of the top man managers in the world, and the confidence and outright transformation hes done with some of our less talented/interested players has been nothing short of miraculous. Nuno has a gift for spotting and developing players that very few other managers have, maybe only klop is better?
A mediocre championship side is now a top 6-8 premier league side and in the knockout stages of the europa league in a few short seasons. How many managers in the world could have done it? Benitez couldnt get Newcastle in europe, or even higher than 10th and hes considered one of the best for example.
SLB
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It's kinda in the name, mate
Anyway, Marco Silva is a disgrace, he was good in Estoril but hasn't done anything halfway decent since that. He wasn't good in Sporting, Olympiakos or Everton. No one can fail so hard in so many different clubs and contexts and be good.
Btw... I would love to know your opinion on NES.
Alan
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Even that was pockmarked with some massive failures. Remember how badly that team capitulated in the match that officially relegated them? I knew then everything I needed to about Silva.
BGreenWolf
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Birds of a feather, I guess.
jdrodrigues
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From memory, had a good season at Rio Ave, had some good spells in Valencia (mainly first season), didn't fail that hard in Porto as he competed for the title until the last games, had a chance to get first place and missed his chance (against Setúbal, I think? When Benfica lost against Paços), despite those drawing meme videos. Brilliant career at Wolves.
However, big clubs are not for him. He is not cut for dominating sides, which has been clear from all the clubs he managed. Even in Wolves, he can never dominate another team, which is shown against the bottom three last year.
To try and get things back on track a bit, I'll give my experience of the match, or to be more precise, the events surrounding the match.
Basically, I got lucky. I already had in my mind that I was going to do sightseeing Thu/Fri (Braga/Porto respectively) - much as I appreciate some people like to have a few beers and a singalong for a few hours beforehand, I went proper tourist as there were a few things I wanted to see. Did most of Braga town in the morning, and decided to make the trek to Bom Jesus do Monte which was/is a bit out of the way, but a spectacular place - I'll admit I was umming and ahhing a bit about going to Porto on the Friday at this point due to the Liege pricks going after our lot, however I wasn't going to be wearing colours (lucky socks aside) - it really shouldn't be this way, I will say, but I've just never worn colours away and probably never will, just in case - so figured if I was going to see Bom Jesus it pretty much had to be this afternoon.
About halfway there, and it started chucking it down. Like, properly torrential stuff. Ended up getting an Uber up there as the funicular (tram up the hill, basically) was apparently closed for lunch. Spent a while wandering around the site taking photos and getting drenched, but it's honestly such a sight to see I don't regret it. Took shelter in the cafe and had some lunch while trying to figure out what to do - I was in two minds to go back to the hotel to try and dry off but I ended up hanging around and just getting another Uber direct to the ground (I didn't have my ticket at this point, had to pick it up). Driver was a Porto fan who wished us luck - "I hate Braga" - so that helped a bit.
I don't remember exactly what time I got there, about 4.50 maybe? It was already getting dark and while there were a few of ours milling around it was in the hundreds, if that. Went straight over and got my ticket within 2 minutes, so that worked pretty well. Then things started to go a bit iffy.
To start, there were a lot of police around. I didn't really think much of it at that point as I assumed they were just hanging around down there to assist people coming in, point them to the right place, make sure there were no clashes between Braga & Wolves fans. But now that I think about it, there were a LOT of them. And they were tooled up, so seemed like they were expecting trouble.
To walk up to the stadium there were 2 main pathways, let's call them left and right. Both led up to a fenced up area with entrances where police were checking tickets. Most of ours seemed to be going in, or being directed to, the right hand side entrance, so I headed over to that one as safety in numbers, etc etc. Presented ticket, got through, ok - admittedly, there were not many going through at this point. Maybe a dozen or two, at most. Can see it would've been a problem if a lot turned up at once - which is probably what happened.
Wait, hang on, this is a field. Why are we walking over a field? Great, it's been chucking it down all day and now we're walking over a wet muddy field. Lovely (left hand side was tarmac - I still don't know if I could've gone through there or whether they were separating Braga fans on the left and Wolves on the right - suspect the latter given everything that happened). It wasn't great when I was going over - a few thousand pairs of feet later and I imagine it was probably Glastonbury-esque and actually probably a bit dangerous. Trainers were in a right state at this point - they're still in one piece but permanently tanned, let's say.
After that trudge you get to the next area where they're doing searches. At this point I see a guy having his flag taken off him - some things I can understand, but a flag? I did see a few inside the ground while the game was going on, so not sure if those were very well hidden by their owners, or there was something else going on (I am speculating a bit but I think all the flags they took were actual flags, if that makes sense - i.e. the England flag with Wolves decoration, etc. The few I saw inside were more your gold Nuno type flags - so not sure if they were confiscating them on that basis?)
I had a portable battery on me for my phone in case it ran out of charge as I was taking quite a lot of photos, using maps to navigate around etc. In the event I didn't need but it got taken off me (to be clear, they didn't snatch it or anything, guy just said I couldn't bring it in). I can understand it, to be honest - probably shouldn't have had it on me so I'll take it as my fault. But the reports I've read have had them taking - or trying - all manner of things, including medical items. Once I was past that I stood off to the side for a moment, to check I had everything, etc, and a guy promptly marched over to get me to move on, now. Now trying to be fair I can kind of understand this as well as you don't want bunches of people loitering as it will inevitably cause crowding, but it was more the aggressive manner that was unnecessary. A calm demeanor and polite request to move along would've done - again, it seemed like they were on edge and expecting trouble.
There were 2 entrances indicated for us to go through, 1 or 3 (they are odd numbered along the entire east stand - can't remember how many in total, think there's either 6 or 8). Most people were heading to 1 as it was closest but I saw 3 was basically empty so went over to that one. There were police lining the walkway but there was only 1 steward at the ticket gates, of which there were 4, IIRC. Scanned the ticket, got in, job done. With regards to the crushing that happened to the people after - I don't know whether this was because everyone was heading into 1? Or whether both were still open at that point - or even if it happened at both. Could see any of those happening, honestly - as I say there were 4, maybe 5 actual ticket gates for each entrance, so if thousands were turning up at once it was going to be a problem.
At this point the Wolves stewards were there and basically were gesturing anyone who got in to get upstairs immediately - again this was probably for safety reasons as the gangways were/are not huge and so not really suitable for holding bunches of people milling around. Up the stairs to the top level, at which point at that end of the stadium there was one bar and one male toilet that most people were attempting to use. I was at the other end of the stand due to buying off Braga so I headed down with the hope/intention of finding equivalents further down (which there were, thankfully) - about a third of the way down there was another fence and ticket check to see if we actually had tickets for that section.
Used the facilities, bought a (non-alcoholic, as it turned out) beer, had a look out over the scenes below, took a couple pictures - this might help give some perspective to what I've been talking about
http://imgur.com/gallery/AeX8QHr
I didn't really notice it at the time but you can see the police starting to line up behind the fans...I don't remember that happening when I was down there. Sadly I suspect what happened next is fairly well known.
Not too much to say on the game itself, people came in slowly at various points. I can't comment on what happened outside on the concourse etc because I didn't see it, all I've seen is what's been floating around social media, which seems to back up what people were saying as they were coming in. - edit- one thing I did forget is that the rows are very, very narrow - and the seats do not fold up. So if you needed to pass someone to get to your seat you had an absolute job on to make it, most people ended up going across the row above or below and clambering over where there were gaps in the crowd. Not hugely safe, tbh.
We were held in the stadium for about half an hour after the end of the game. Some people seemed surprised at this for some reason, but far as I know this is par for the course at games like this and they did give plenty of warning it would happen...not sure what there is to complain about here.
The walk back to town was not great albeit that was mostly because it was dark and still chucking it down (and we'd chucked a 2 goal lead) - police lined the road intermittently for a long while but they were mostly passive from what I saw.
Overall not the best experience but as I say...it seems I got very lucky.
Basically, I got lucky. I already had in my mind that I was going to do sightseeing Thu/Fri (Braga/Porto respectively) - much as I appreciate some people like to have a few beers and a singalong for a few hours beforehand, I went proper tourist as there were a few things I wanted to see. Did most of Braga town in the morning, and decided to make the trek to Bom Jesus do Monte which was/is a bit out of the way, but a spectacular place - I'll admit I was umming and ahhing a bit about going to Porto on the Friday at this point due to the Liege pricks going after our lot, however I wasn't going to be wearing colours (lucky socks aside) - it really shouldn't be this way, I will say, but I've just never worn colours away and probably never will, just in case - so figured if I was going to see Bom Jesus it pretty much had to be this afternoon.
About halfway there, and it started chucking it down. Like, properly torrential stuff. Ended up getting an Uber up there as the funicular (tram up the hill, basically) was apparently closed for lunch. Spent a while wandering around the site taking photos and getting drenched, but it's honestly such a sight to see I don't regret it. Took shelter in the cafe and had some lunch while trying to figure out what to do - I was in two minds to go back to the hotel to try and dry off but I ended up hanging around and just getting another Uber direct to the ground (I didn't have my ticket at this point, had to pick it up). Driver was a Porto fan who wished us luck - "I hate Braga" - so that helped a bit.
I don't remember exactly what time I got there, about 4.50 maybe? It was already getting dark and while there were a few of ours milling around it was in the hundreds, if that. Went straight over and got my ticket within 2 minutes, so that worked pretty well. Then things started to go a bit iffy.
To start, there were a lot of police around. I didn't really think much of it at that point as I assumed they were just hanging around down there to assist people coming in, point them to the right place, make sure there were no clashes between Braga & Wolves fans. But now that I think about it, there were a LOT of them. And they were tooled up, so seemed like they were expecting trouble.
To walk up to the stadium there were 2 main pathways, let's call them left and right. Both led up to a fenced up area with entrances where police were checking tickets. Most of ours seemed to be going in, or being directed to, the right hand side entrance, so I headed over to that one as safety in numbers, etc etc. Presented ticket, got through, ok - admittedly, there were not many going through at this point. Maybe a dozen or two, at most. Can see it would've been a problem if a lot turned up at once - which is probably what happened.
Wait, hang on, this is a field. Why are we walking over a field? Great, it's been chucking it down all day and now we're walking over a wet muddy field. Lovely (left hand side was tarmac - I still don't know if I could've gone through there or whether they were separating Braga fans on the left and Wolves on the right - suspect the latter given everything that happened). It wasn't great when I was going over - a few thousand pairs of feet later and I imagine it was probably Glastonbury-esque and actually probably a bit dangerous. Trainers were in a right state at this point - they're still in one piece but permanently tanned, let's say.
After that trudge you get to the next area where they're doing searches. At this point I see a guy having his flag taken off him - some things I can understand, but a flag? I did see a few inside the ground while the game was going on, so not sure if those were very well hidden by their owners, or there was something else going on (I am speculating a bit but I think all the flags they took were actual flags, if that makes sense - i.e. the England flag with Wolves decoration, etc. The few I saw inside were more your gold Nuno type flags - so not sure if they were confiscating them on that basis?)
I had a portable battery on me for my phone in case it ran out of charge as I was taking quite a lot of photos, using maps to navigate around etc. In the event I didn't need but it got taken off me (to be clear, they didn't snatch it or anything, guy just said I couldn't bring it in). I can understand it, to be honest - probably shouldn't have had it on me so I'll take it as my fault. But the reports I've read have had them taking - or trying - all manner of things, including medical items. Once I was past that I stood off to the side for a moment, to check I had everything, etc, and a guy promptly marched over to get me to move on, now. Now trying to be fair I can kind of understand this as well as you don't want bunches of people loitering as it will inevitably cause crowding, but it was more the aggressive manner that was unnecessary. A calm demeanor and polite request to move along would've done - again, it seemed like they were on edge and expecting trouble.
There were 2 entrances indicated for us to go through, 1 or 3 (they are odd numbered along the entire east stand - can't remember how many in total, think there's either 6 or 8). Most people were heading to 1 as it was closest but I saw 3 was basically empty so went over to that one. There were police lining the walkway but there was only 1 steward at the ticket gates, of which there were 4, IIRC. Scanned the ticket, got in, job done. With regards to the crushing that happened to the people after - I don't know whether this was because everyone was heading into 1? Or whether both were still open at that point - or even if it happened at both. Could see any of those happening, honestly - as I say there were 4, maybe 5 actual ticket gates for each entrance, so if thousands were turning up at once it was going to be a problem.
At this point the Wolves stewards were there and basically were gesturing anyone who got in to get upstairs immediately - again this was probably for safety reasons as the gangways were/are not huge and so not really suitable for holding bunches of people milling around. Up the stairs to the top level, at which point at that end of the stadium there was one bar and one male toilet that most people were attempting to use. I was at the other end of the stand due to buying off Braga so I headed down with the hope/intention of finding equivalents further down (which there were, thankfully) - about a third of the way down there was another fence and ticket check to see if we actually had tickets for that section.
Used the facilities, bought a (non-alcoholic, as it turned out) beer, had a look out over the scenes below, took a couple pictures - this might help give some perspective to what I've been talking about
http://imgur.com/gallery/AeX8QHr
I didn't really notice it at the time but you can see the police starting to line up behind the fans...I don't remember that happening when I was down there. Sadly I suspect what happened next is fairly well known.
Not too much to say on the game itself, people came in slowly at various points. I can't comment on what happened outside on the concourse etc because I didn't see it, all I've seen is what's been floating around social media, which seems to back up what people were saying as they were coming in. - edit- one thing I did forget is that the rows are very, very narrow - and the seats do not fold up. So if you needed to pass someone to get to your seat you had an absolute job on to make it, most people ended up going across the row above or below and clambering over where there were gaps in the crowd. Not hugely safe, tbh.
We were held in the stadium for about half an hour after the end of the game. Some people seemed surprised at this for some reason, but far as I know this is par for the course at games like this and they did give plenty of warning it would happen...not sure what there is to complain about here.
The walk back to town was not great albeit that was mostly because it was dark and still chucking it down (and we'd chucked a 2 goal lead) - police lined the road intermittently for a long while but they were mostly passive from what I saw.
Overall not the best experience but as I say...it seems I got very lucky.
Jabbawolf
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jdrodrigues
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Ahahah
What I meant is clubs who "have" to play in a very aggressive manner such as Porto and Benfica!
Lycan
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You went to the game last night? How did you find the stadium and everything around?
The game wasn't particularly good but I think Benfica played well. Not sure if it was because the opposition was so crap lol I think I know which stall you're talking about, had lots of different scarves, right? They're always there on match days!
Tbh, I disagree with you on the acession of Vinicius being awful. While he's not a top player, he does what you would expect of him, with Chiquinho being the one who gets lower to pick up the game.
It was brilliant mate.
The stadium was brilliant and the fans around me were great. They clocked I was English right away but were determined that I was going to join in so taught me the words to some of your chants and one of them gave me a scarf to twirl after the goals went in. [emoji23]
I was staying in Alfama so it was a bit of a mission to get back after the game but it was definitely worth it.
jdrodrigues
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Glad you had a wonderful time! Where were you seated?
Lycan
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On about half way, slightly towards the end Benfica attacked in the first half. Entered through Porta 19.
jdrodrigues
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Good seats!
So happy that you had a good time. General benfica fans are very accommodating within the stadium. And you did get one half decent match, as benfica have had terrible spells.
So happy that you had a good time. General benfica fans are very accommodating within the stadium. And you did get one half decent match, as benfica have had terrible spells.
Lycan
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Well, I mean Maritimo were absolutely diabolical so it wasn't much of a contest. :icon_lol:
I don't know who their #10 is but he could barely control the ball.
I enjoyed watching Pizzi, Chiquinho, Cervi and Grimaldo though. And the guy you brought on at RB was really good too. Nice red card for Gabriel too, I enjoy a good horror tackle as a neutral and that one was very entertaining. :icon_lol:
SSB
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The Bion has summed up the trip very accurately in their post above, but these are my concise thoughts.
We came away from the trip feeling incredibly lucky on a few occasions. Whilst in Porto we saw the violence being inflicted by the Standard Liege fans, but were out of harm’s way enough not to actually be caught up in it. But it wasn’t a pleasant feeling walking round the Wednesday night having to watch your back.
In Braga, we arrived fairly early at the ground and was incredibly lucky to be some of the last fans to get through the cordons and to the base of the steps before the robocops turned up and started baton practise. Before the game, apart from the weather we’d had a great time in the few pubs we’d visited and the locals had been very hospitable.
On a whole we had a good time in both Porto and Braga, but the weather played a major part in “dampening” our enjoyment.
We came away from the trip feeling incredibly lucky on a few occasions. Whilst in Porto we saw the violence being inflicted by the Standard Liege fans, but were out of harm’s way enough not to actually be caught up in it. But it wasn’t a pleasant feeling walking round the Wednesday night having to watch your back.
In Braga, we arrived fairly early at the ground and was incredibly lucky to be some of the last fans to get through the cordons and to the base of the steps before the robocops turned up and started baton practise. Before the game, apart from the weather we’d had a great time in the few pubs we’d visited and the locals had been very hospitable.
On a whole we had a good time in both Porto and Braga, but the weather played a major part in “dampening” our enjoyment.
