Nottm Forest 1-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Tredman]

Yep, looked fine on TV at least.

 

[big mean bunny]

Johnstone - Maybe could have done better for the goal but he’s expecting a touch infront of him and just didn’t react quick enough when it didn’t happen. Much calmer than Sa on the ball and his 30/40 yard clips actually went to players rather than in the stand.

Fan of your write up Slink. But did want to share this as seen a few people mentioning Johnstone and his distribution as an improvement over Sa. The raw stats don't measure up with an improvement. I get looking calmer and the perception of that may play a part. That it was an mostly okay debut (that for me is measured up against basically seeing what I expected to see as had pretty low/realistic expectations. Really poor on the goal with his reactions and anticipation but then did what else you would expect and wasn't fully tested. Hopefully sharpness and minutes improve this a tad.)

Sa v Arsenal - 39 passes, 22 accurate, 56% - accurate long balls 9/26 35%
Sa v Chelsea - 28 passes, 17 accurate, 61% - accurate long balls 6/17 35%
Johnstone v Forest - 32 passes, 16 accurate, 50% - accurate long balls 6/21 29%

 

[Blakenhall Wolf]

The save Johnstone made for MGW's free kick was excellent. The ball was bang on top corner so thought he did well to keep that out.

Kicking was deffo better than Sa too.

The defence was to blame for their goal not Johnstone. He had to react last second as it was a very crowded box and he maybe thought someone would get a touch?

 

[Kenny]

Sa would have got a round of fucks on here for conceding it.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Elanga is in front of him which muddies the issue a bit but I think he needs to save it.

The saves off the free kick and Wood's header went some way to redeeming him.

The bigger sin is the complete lack of marking, it's unfathomable.

 

[Kenny]

The save from the header was very good

 

[NicholasG1973]

Johnstone is a definite improvement.

Agree totally, should have done better with the goal.

MGWs free kick was a good save (but should have made it) but Woods header was excellent.

With him and Dawson you could feel a calmer defensive unit - it’s not just about keeping the ball out the net, obviously.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

I’d say it’s a bit premature to judge whether Johnstone is a definite improvement. Good and bad yesterday, which more or less sums up Sa’s time here.

 

[big mean bunny]

The save Johnstone made for MGW's free kick was excellent. The ball was bang on top corner so thought he did well to keep that out.

Kicking was deffo better than Sa too.

The defence was to blame for their goal not Johnstone. He had to react last second as it was a very crowded box and he maybe thought someone would get a touch?

Excellent is too far. It's a good save and more importantly has a really strong push out which is more important than the save, as I basically expect every Prem keeper to stop that. There isn't a tremendous amount of power on it.

The Wood save is much better. Especially as it's not a clean header and you see him adjust.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Think I’m a bit Roy Keane with keepers, but felt both saves are a type you’d expect a keeper at this level to make. Maybe the good footwork and positioning etc makes them look comfortable.

The goal he could have done better on, but wouldn’t blame him.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Must be some kind of Wolves keeper hoodoo at that end. Sa let in an even worse one last season.

 

[slink]

Fan of your write up Slink. But did want to share this as seen a few people mentioning Johnstone and his distribution as an improvement over Sa. The raw stats don't measure up with an improvement. I get looking calmer and the perception of that may play a part. That it was an mostly okay debut (that for me is measured up against basically seeing what I expected to see as had pretty low/realistic expectations. Really poor on the goal with his reactions and anticipation but then did what else you would expect and wasn't fully tested. Hopefully sharpness and minutes improve this a tad.)

Sa v Arsenal - 39 passes, 22 accurate, 56% - accurate long balls 9/26 35%
Sa v Chelsea - 28 passes, 17 accurate, 61% - accurate long balls 6/17 35%
Johnstone v Forest - 32 passes, 16 accurate, 50% - accurate long balls 6/21 29%

Definitely a case of trusting the eye test for me and then the context of those passes making the stats not look as good as they were.

For example if you look at his passing stats for the first 75 minutes it’s over 60% and was still at 59% when Larsen goes off. After that between them Hwang, Guedes and Cunha won absolutely nothing hence that long ball and pass success rate going down.
In terms of the goal and his saves, he will be disappointed with the goal but can understand why he didn’t save it, Elanga really should make contact. Then his saves from the free kick and the Wood header while both good saves i expect a keeper at this level to save them and also not push them back out in to play. Can’t judge him from one game but it was a definite improvement on Sa’s 2 performances this season but not at the level of Sa at his best from previous seasons. Those better performances were starting to become more infrequent though and more errors were leading to goals plus his indecision was leading to anxiety for both our defence and the crowd.

 

[big mean bunny]

This is my issue with the Johnstone signing. Sa wasn't fantastic but then neither is Johnstone. I personally still feel it's a downgrade but marginal. If it's an upgrade, it's still marginal. And to the extent a keeper is still something that needs to be an area targeted for scouting and improving, as it's potentially the weakest spot we now have in the starting 11? It is for me at least.

 

[Alan]

Definitely a case of trusting the eye test for me and then the context of those passes making the stats not look as good as they were.

For example if you look at his passing stats for the first 75 minutes it’s over 60% and was still at 59% when Larsen goes off. After that between them Hwang, Guedes and Cunha won absolutely nothing hence that long ball and pass success rate going down.
In terms of the goal and his saves, he will be disappointed with the goal but can understand why he didn’t save it, Elanga really should make contact. Then his saves from the free kick and the Wood header while both good saves i expect a keeper at this level to save them and also not push them back out in to play. Can’t judge him from one game but it was a definite improvement on Sa’s 2 performances this season but not at the level of Sa at his best from previous seasons. Those better performances were starting to become more infrequent though and more errors were leading to goals plus his indecision was leading to anxiety for both our defence and the crowd.

IMO an important contextual stat there would be retention after the pass is received. IIRC it’s considered “accurate” if the first touch is by a teammate, but that doesn’t mean much if touches 2, 3, 4, etc. are by the opposition.

For my money, Johnstone looked more considered with his kicking than Sá, though too early to call it a step up.

 

[The Bear]

Yep, looked fine on TV at least.

He wasn't. He had a clear slight limp on his left leg. I noticed it immediately when it cut to him walking around the pitch.

 

[Squeak]

This is my issue with the Johnstone signing. Sa wasn't fantastic but then neither is Johnstone. I personally still feel it's a downgrade but marginal. If it's an upgrade, it's still marginal. And to the extent a keeper is still something that needs to be an area targeted for scouting and improving, as it's potentially the weakest spot we now have in the starting 11? It is for me at least.

So if we accept your argument that it is a downgrade, and I don't by the way, just who do you think we could have recruited?

 

[Alan]

So if we accept your argument that it is a downgrade, and I don't by the way, just who do you think we could have recruited?

We were quite literally one dipshit executive away from getting Ramsdale, no?

 

[big mean bunny]

So if we accept your argument that it is a downgrade, and I don't by the way, just who do you think we could have recruited?

Well if the choices for me were Sa, Johnstone, or Ramsdale for the fee Southampton paid, then I would have stayed Sa
If you had told me Sa couldn't be kept for whatever reason then I would have taken Ramsdale for that price despite my earlier reluctance; as he has the best ceiling out of these. And feel he could be at his Howard at Everton phase, where despite having not worked out at a top team he will have benefited from it.

If we had to free up the Home Grown spot (lost track of how that panned out) then I would have looked at a move for Steele or at least tried that prior to Johnstone, so much has been made of Johnstone as an improvement in terms of possession, despite that being something he is probably better at than Sa overall, there are at least 15-20 keepers in the league better with the ball than him, including Steele, so it clashed with me when people kept saying this was an upgrade due to something that isn't a true strength of SJ.

I get there are a lot of hypothetical thought here, and some of it is my own bias but I would never have put myself in the position where we were only interested in spending that amount of money on a keeper. Both took time to adjust (and I supposed thats the plus side of Johnstone and why his value was marked up over his actual ability and age) but both Flekken and Verbruggen were in that £10m-£14m range and both I would now put comfortable ahead of SJ now, admittedly having early struggles that made them look ill advised.

People can argue we would have been unlikely to land him, but LFC appear to have only paid £25m for the best keeper at the Euros and he was known prior to the Euros. I would have looked at all of Kepa, Musso also loaned out from Atlanta having previously been their starter. I like Vanja Milinkovic-Savic at Torino despite his flaws, think of a much higher end Sa.

I would have looked at Pau Lopez too, not sure what has happened to him to have been loaned out so might be an issue, as bascially know little of French football now.

Personally I would have hoped we had been looking at keepers in South America, know little about them but noticed a few moved to Europe this last year, and given our range there now it would have surely been an area we looked into.

Sorry for such a long response, once the keeper chat starts I can't help it. Reply #OPTOUT if you want it to stop!

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

The goal he could have done better on, but wouldn’t blame him.

You'd blame Sa

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Can’t judge him from one game but it was a definite improvement on Sa’s 2 performances this season but not at the level of Sa at his best from previous seasons.

That's a perfect analysis.