Newcastle 3-0 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Jinky]

Opinion of The Mag (Newcastle fan site) is that we are deluded if we think there wasn't much between the teams. I think there is something in their assertion that Newcastle allowed us to have the ball and possession as they knew we couldn't really hurt them. So they sucked us in, left Isak and Gordon high, and Schar/Botman/Bruno are good enough on the ball to spring quick counters.

I do think that plan would have been a bit different if we'd have had Cunha, Hwang and Neto for 90 minutes.

It’s difficult to disagree with them. I don’t agree that there “wasn’t much between the two teams” at the weekend. It was about as comfortable a three points as they’ll get this season - however, it wasn’t an even playing field.

If we’ve got a full strength 11 against their best 11, I agree that there isn’t much between us. But we just can’t compete missing the players that weren’t available to us & then to lose Neto & Sa at half time just made it even worse when the game was already lost.

Our second half performance, whilst a bit better than the first half, was nothing more than them knowing we wouldn’t have scored if we were still playing now. They didn’t get out of 2nd gear & still managed to add a third goal at the end.

Anyone who thinks “there wasn’t much between us” needs to take those rose tinted glasses off because we were comfortably beaten. Different circumstances on a different day & there may have been a different outcome - but we’ve got little to no hope with that many injuries to key players, which would be the same the other way around.

 

[The Fish]

Geordie back and not on the wind up or owt.

Thought we played ok, very obviously switched from trying to play on the front foot to a more counter attack style which worked well. We kept you at arms length for the majority of the game. When chances did come your way you didn't have a fit striker to put them away, you definitely missed Hwang and Cunha.

Hope everyone who travelled up for the game enjoyed the visit, those 90 minutes aside.

 

[The Fish]

If we’ve got a full strength 11 against their best 11, I agree that there isn’t much between us.

Not sure if I agree with this mind. Don't mean for this to come off as arrogant or deluded or anything, but if we had our full strength side available for more of this season I don't think we'd be out of the CL, and we'd be higher up the league too.

We've been without so many players and so many key players for great swathes of the season. Pope (was only available for 14 games) and Joelinton (16 )chief among them. These two were integral to how we played last season. . We've been without Isak, Botman, and Wilson for a good amount of this season (available for 20, 16, 16 games respectively). Let alone lads like Anderson, Barnes, Tonali, Willock (10, 11, 9, 5 respectively) who would have reduced the burden on our remaining players.

Man for Man I think our first choice team is stronger than yours in all but 1 or 2 positions, and in some positions we're stronger by some distance.

I realise after reading this back, this comes off as Billy Big Bollocks but that's honestly not my intent, I just think is a decent margin between us. On the day, I'm not sure any of that matters because it comes down to how the team plays together, how the manager sets them up and how the individual performs.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, Newcastle shade it.

Pope is better than Sa, Trippier is better than Semedo, Schär and Botman are individually better than all our CHs. Bruno G gets in nearly every PL team, even perhaps City. Isak and Wilson are actual strikers and we don't have one of them.

In our favour Ait-Nouri is clearly better than Burn, I get the job Longstaff/Willock do but I wouldn't really want either at Wolves, and Neto/Cunha would get in the Newcastle team somewhere.

 

[sycophantia]

Yeah, Newcastle shade it.

Pope is better than Sa, Trippier is better than Semedo, Schär and Botman are individually better than all our CHs. Bruno G gets in nearly every PL team, even perhaps City. Isak and Wilson are actual strikers and we don't have one of them.

In our favour Ait-Nouri is clearly better than Burn, I get the job Longstaff/Willock do but I wouldn't really want either at Wolves, and Neto/Cunha would get in the Newcastle team somewhere.

Agree with this, Longstaff and Willock aren't terrible but wouldn't swap either for Lemina and Gomes, maybe even Doyle is as good as them.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Not sure if I agree with this mind. Don't mean for this to come off as arrogant or deluded or anything, but if we had our full strength side available for more of this season I don't think we'd be out of the CL, and we'd be higher up the league too.

We've been without so many players and so many key players for great swathes of the season. Pope (was only available for 14 games) and Joelinton (16 )chief among them. These two were integral to how we played last season. . We've been without Isak, Botman, and Wilson for a good amount of this season (available for 20, 16, 16 games respectively). Let alone lads like Anderson, Barnes, Tonali, Willock (10, 11, 9, 5 respectively) who would have reduced the burden on our remaining players.

Man for Man I think our first choice team is stronger than yours in all but 1 or 2 positions, and in some positions we're stronger by some distance.

I realise after reading this back, this comes off as Billy Big Bollocks but that's honestly not my intent, I just think is a decent margin between us. On the day, I'm not sure any of that matters because it comes down to how the team plays together, how the manager sets them up and how the individual performs.

Thing is, Howe has been crap in how he has managed fatigue and intensity playing the way you do in every game in the early part of the season was always going to end in plenty of muscle injuries. It's not all been bad luck.

 

[Del Woppio]

@The Fish I know you've been vey polite and everything but I can't let you go without saying that Jason Tindall is an absolute twat, and right up there amongst the worst things in the post '92 football era

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

@The Fish I know you've been vey polite and everything but I can't let you go without saying that Jason Tindall is an absolute twat, and right up there amongst the worst things in the post '92 football era

Catalogue model cunt. Him, not you.

Gaz knows.

 

[The Fish]

Thing is, Howe has been crap in how he has managed fatigue and intensity playing the way you do in every game in the early part of the season was always going to end in plenty of muscle injuries. It's not all been bad luck.

I think that's certainly true at times, but honestly the players we've had missing has forced us to play a core of about 6 for 90 minutes every bloody game. Howe is stubborn with some selections (Burn playing so much when the left side was clearly being targeted e.g. ) but much of what might appear stubborn is simply a lack of options. We've had to play Bruno, Longstaff and Miley (a 17yr old kid) way more than I'm sure he'd have liked because we're missing every other CM. We've had to play Gordon for c90 minutes every game because the gap between the PL standard and the kids from our U21s or U18s is so huge.

The majority of the injuries we've had is bad luck and not soft tissue injuries;
Anderson - spine after a bad fall,
Barnes - foot injury after a bad fall,
Botman - knee injury during a game,
Murphy - dislocated shoulder,
Pope - dislocated shoulder,
Wilson - bizarrely got a torn pectoral etc.

Willock injured his hamstring before the season began managed 1 full 90 minute game before immediately doing his Achilles. And Joelinton is perhaps a victim of the high intensity style, but so many of our sidelined players are there because of bad luck. (Tonali is there because he's a dumbass)

We stopped playing the high press-high intensity a couple of games after the Man Utd game where we lost Pope for the season and have been struggling to find a style that works with the available players. Feels like when we do sort one, one of the key players for that style gets injured.

 

[The Fish]

Yeah, Newcastle shade it.

Pope is better than Sa, Trippier is better than Semedo, Schär and Botman are individually better than all our CHs. Bruno G gets in nearly every PL team, even perhaps City. Isak and Wilson are actual strikers and we don't have one of them.

In our favour Ait-Nouri is clearly better than Burn, I get the job Longstaff/Willock do but I wouldn't really want either at Wolves, and Neto/Cunha would get in the Newcastle team somewhere.

Willock is class, but can't stay fit, I'd 100% have Neto ahead of Almiron. Have to admit my ignorance of Ait-Nouri's actual quality but he must be better than Dan Burn at left back. Poor 9 fingered giant gets a lot of stick but we forget he's a centreback by trade and he's played there so he can shift across into the middle to form a trio of CBs whenever Trippier bombs on, which is all the time.

 

[AndyWolves]

Willock is class, but can't stay fit, I'd 100% have Neto ahead of Almiron. Have to admit my ignorance of Ait-Nouri's actual quality but he must be better than Dan Burn at left back. Poor 9 fingered giant gets a lot of stick but we forget he's a centreback by trade and he's played there so he can shift across into the middle to form a trio of CBs whenever Trippier bombs on, which is all the time.

I was going to ask you about Dan Burn, i just don't get him as a concept!

 

[Wilf Wolf]

I think any Wolves fan that thinks we are a match for a team that qualified for the CL last season, even when everyone in our squad is fully fit, is delusional.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Willock is class, but can't stay fit, I'd 100% have Neto ahead of Almiron. Have to admit my ignorance of Ait-Nouri's actual quality but he must be better than Dan Burn at left back. Poor 9 fingered giant gets a lot of stick but we forget he's a centreback by trade and he's played there so he can shift across into the middle to form a trio of CBs whenever Trippier bombs on, which is all the time.

If I had to pick a hybrid team:

-----------------Pope------------

Trippier----Botman---Schär----Ait-Nouri

--------Joelinton---Lemina--Bruno------

--------Neto-------Isak------Cunha---------

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Also it's not all that long (two and a half years or so) that this fixture was Bruno Lage vs Steve Bruce. Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[The Fish]

I was going to ask you about Dan Burn, i just don't get him as a concept!

At the time he was bought to be an upgrade on Lascelles and to fill in a LB when Targett was unavailable. Howe realised that with Trippier bombing on we could shift to 3 at the back, Joelinton shuffling over to add a bit of protection on our left flank, leaving ASM more license to attack.

Then we swapped Gordon for ASM and the plan would have been to rotate him and Targett, but Targett got injured. Newcastle fans assumed Lewis Hall would step into that spot, or maybe Livramento, but Howe's stuck with the horse what brung him. Dunno why beyond the aforementioned 3-at-the-back system in possession.

 

[The Fish]

Also it's not all that long (two and a half years or so) that this fixture was Bruno Lage vs Steve Bruce. Jesus fucking Christ.

Well, good to know what my nightmares are going to be about tonight, I guess.

 

[Tony Towner]

You'd have the perfect full back if you meshed Trippier with Semedo. Yes he provides loads of assists which shades it, but he had a couple of months where he was woeful defensively

 

[The Fish]

You'd have the perfect full back if you meshed Trippier with Semedo. Yes he provides loads of assists which shades it, but he had a couple of months where he was woeful defensively

Oh god, those trips, slips and missteps. Cost us a League Cup final, and possibly points against Everton, Spurs and Forest. Usually he's one of the best right backs in the league. He just needs a rest, but for whatever reason Howe didn't want to take a 'risk' on Livramento.

 

[Jinky]

Not sure if I agree with this mind. Don't mean for this to come off as arrogant or deluded or anything, but if we had our full strength side available for more of this season I don't think we'd be out of the CL, and we'd be higher up the league too.

We've been without so many players and so many key players for great swathes of the season. Pope (was only available for 14 games) and Joelinton (16 )chief among them. These two were integral to how we played last season. . We've been without Isak, Botman, and Wilson for a good amount of this season (available for 20, 16, 16 games respectively). Let alone lads like Anderson, Barnes, Tonali, Willock (10, 11, 9, 5 respectively) who would have reduced the burden on our remaining players.

Man for Man I think our first choice team is stronger than yours in all but 1 or 2 positions, and in some positions we're stronger by some distance.

I realise after reading this back, this comes off as Billy Big Bollocks but that's honestly not my intent, I just think is a decent margin between us. On the day, I'm not sure any of that matters because it comes down to how the team plays together, how the manager sets them up and how the individual performs.

Oh listen, I didn’t mean for that to come across as we’re as good as you. More that, best 11 v best 11, we’d at least give you a decent match (but I agree you’d be stronger on paper). The 2-2 draw in the reverse fixture being a perfect example, but without doubt you still shade it.

I know you’ve been hit badly with injuries this season too.

I don’t think we’re a side that’s “3-0” worse than you if the games played 10 times in a row with best 11’s out. But with the particular injuries we had at the weekend we had no hope.

The players you were able to bring off the bench compared to us show the difference there, let alone the scoreline!

 

[The Fish]

Oh listen, I didn’t mean for that to come across as we’re as good as you. More that, best 11 v best 11, we’d at least give you a decent match (but I agree you’d be stronger on paper). The 2-2 draw in the reverse fixture being a perfect example, but without doubt you still shade it.

I know you’ve been hit badly with injuries this season too.

I don’t think we’re a side that’s “3-0” worse than you if the games played 10 times in a row with best 11’s out. But with the particular injuries we had at the weekend we had no hope.

The players you were able to bring off the bench compared to us show the difference there, let alone the scoreline!

Never known a season like it. Not just for us, but all teams seem to be experiencing record high numbers of injuries. Not all soft tissue either.

I do have a pet theory with absolutely no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience; VAR has increased the number of long(er) stoppages and we, as elite athletes, all know that to maintain that competitive edge you need to warm up and warm down after bursts of activity. Could these stoppages be contributing to the number of injuries? I don't know, I'm just a truth-seeker, asking questions.