wolves 2 Chelsea 5 verdict

[Deutsch Wolf]

I disagree on 3 at the back not being why Chelsea won the game. It protected Alonso and also made Traore have to defend which he was too inexperienced to know what to do with when it probably hadn't been coached during the week. That weakness down our left brought the second and third goals and ultimately the game.

Good management by Lampard you'd have to say.

Not many teams will do that though. Chelsea were playing that system regularly 18 months ago and a fair amount of the same players are still there, pretty easy to switch back. Harder for say, Palace or Watford to do that when they never play three at the back.

For all the excitement that Adama brings (and he is much better going forward this season as there's actually the semblance of him doing something), he isn't a very good fit for us with how we play and he really cannot defend at all (which is not his fault).

 

[prawnking]

A lot of existential crisis stuff here.

It's not a competition to be the coolest and least flustered... and no-one's panicking. It's OK to be happy when we do well and concerned when it's going tits up! We're fans.

 

[Johnny75]

I disagree on 3 at the back not being why Chelsea won the game. It protected Alonso and also made Traore have to defend which he was too inexperienced to know what to do with when it probably hadn't been coached during the week. That weakness down their left brought the second and third goals and ultimately the game.

Absolutely. Completely different when we went to a 3-4-3 and occupied their centre backs and moreso when Doc was on as they actually had somebody who could defend as well as give good movement off the ball. I don't like Neves being this deep when Donck is playing so poorly it leaves Joao on his own in the middle.

I know Chelsea knocked off a bit but they really struggled when we changed shape.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's not a competition to be the coolest and least flustered... and no-one's panicking. It's OK to be happy when we do well and concerned when it's going tits up! We're fans.

Nor is it a competition to be the first to say "I told you so" whenever something goes wrong, as seems to be the case so often.

Pretty sure people are panicking when they're talking about relegation battles after five games. We were in a far more precarious state post-Cardiff away last season (we had a lot of this then, too).

At some point you have to trust the best Wolves manager most of us have ever seen to sort it out. Every wobble we've ever had before in his time here has been sorted out with minimal fuss.

 

[Alan]

In a sense, the performances against Torino sort of make me more concerned. Or at least more confused.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We almost played too​ well for me, Clive.

 

[Alan]

It's just weird.

 

[prawnking]

Pretty sure people are panicking when they're talking about relegation battles after five games.

OK OK, I'll give you that one haha but it wasn't me that said it... in a league where you can get sacked after four games I guess the hype can be contagious. And if the league is going to be as close as some are predicting from 3rd to bottom then dropping 12 points already is bound to be concerning. Especially as we know what a bad habit losing/not winning can be in this league and the mental toll it takes on players.

You don't have to sell Nuno or his ability to get round an impasse to me, but I'm not sure that my recruitment concerns are completely digs at him. Anyway it's observation and making links, not personal attacks or lack of 'trust'.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everything in the garden is rosy. It isn't.

The indignation (not just here, see social media for your full on rage) is off the scale though. Pause that game 30 seconds before Tomori scores and try telling me who the better team is. Neither of them, because neither of them did anything.

We should have won at Leicester, fighting back as we did vs United and Burnley should be applauded. Should have been in front at Everton at HT, admittedly we were total rubbish in the second half.

Things aren't as bad as they seem. If we're 19th in six weeks, with Jota on 0 goals, Coady giving up a goal or more a game, Dendoncker looking like Dave Edwards without the running and we're still leaving ourselves wide open down one side, then I might start to worry. I don't believe that will be the case though. I've seen more than enough from this set of players and manager to believe that we'll work it out.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Pause that game 30 seconds before Tomori scores and try telling me who the better team is. Neither of them, because neither of them did anything.

I keep seeing this but I don’t agree at all. We got forward for the opening 10 minutes, then didn’t try to do this for the next 20. We weren’t exactly pressing up against Burnley either.

We sat back, isolated the front two (who refused to hold it up, but this must be Instruction), and then had it come straight back with the us still camped in our third. If you allow people to have a free ride into our third then freak goals can happen (I know this one was a corner), mistakes are more likely to lead to goals. Don’t buy a ticket you can’t win the raffle. We aren’t buying any at the minute and are giving too many out with better odds as our defending individually and collectively is shit.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If you were to describe Chelsea's attacking threat up to that point, how would you summarise it?

I hate those stupid questions on application forms where you're expected to give an answer in 100 words or less or whatever. I think I could do it in 10 words or less in this case.

We aren't keeping the ball particularly well at the moment (doesn't help when Donck is totally off colour and doesn't have his mate outside him to give an easy ball to - Traore is never going to be there for that) but then we've never been especially possession heavy as a Premier League team.

 

[Premier Quality]

I disagree on 3 at the back not being why Chelsea won the game. It protected Alonso and also made Traore have to defend which he was too inexperienced to know what to do with when it probably hadn't been coached during the week. That weakness down their left brought the second and third goals and ultimately the game.

I have to ask how you blame Traore for those two goals - the first tomori runs through the middle with Donk next to him, and Traore picks up Alonso as he should to stop the pass and cross. If He goes to Tomori, he lays it wide for the cross. Donk should have done better.

For the third, it’s a cross from our left, Traore picks up his man in the box, and it’s headed out to Alonso who gets the cross in. Doherty would have done the same thing, you defend the ball, you don’t hang about outside the area just in case it’s cleared and they can get a cross in?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's more that there's continually a massive, massive space down there for the opposition to knock the ball into. It really is a free go, all the time. It's not his fault because at no point has anyone ever previously looked at Adama Traore and thought "you know what, I really want him down in our RB area, shutting down space".

Add in an ultra-shaky RCH who doesn't cover properly and you have a huge problem.

Not playing the superfan card here but it's something you won't see on TV. It's an even more exaggerated version of the Batth/Fat Doc Channel of Doom in 2014.

 

[PuntsWolf]

If you were to describe Chelsea's attacking threat up to that point, how would you summarise it?

I hate those stupid questions on application forms where you're expected to give an answer in 100 words or less or whatever. I think I could do it in 10 words or less in this case.

We aren't keeping the ball particularly well at the moment (doesn't help when Donck is totally off colour and doesn't have his mate outside him to give an easy ball to - Traore is never going to be there for that) but then we've never been especially possession heavy as a Premier League team.

I’d say... lots of possession, lots of territory, a few set pieces, no chances of note. But they were at least keeping the ball and in our third which at least give them the opportunity of scoring (which they did and the rest is history).

We aren’t keeping the ball well as you say, and we’ve never been possession heavy. But we’ve always Carried a goal threat, even against City when we truly parked the bus. At the moment we don’t have one and at the same time giving us too much to do at the other end.

 

[Premier Quality]

It's more that there's continually a massive, massive space down there for the opposition to knock the ball into. It really is a free go, all the time. It's not his fault because at no point has anyone ever previously looked at Adama Traore and thought "you know what, I really want him down in our RB area, shutting down space".

Add in an ultra-shaky RCH who doesn't cover properly and you have a huge problem.

Not playing the superfan card here but it's something you won't see on TV. It's an even more exaggerated version of the Batth/Fat Doc Channel of Doom in 2014.

I’ve got no problem with “general defensiveness” or even “Doc links the play better”, but the comment was that the weakness down that side brought the second and third goals, and I don’t see how that’s the case.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Mate, that is my view. When I tell you there is a ridiculously huge gap down that side, you really are just going to have to believe me. This is one of those things where I genuinely can see better than you.

 

[Premier Quality]

I’m not arguing on that Deutsch - I’m saying the second and third goals were not caused by that. The second was a run through the centre and he marked his wing back - what would Doherty have done differently? And the third he was in the area for a cross from our left - again, what would Doc have done differently?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's open season down there is the point. They probably don't even play down that side if we're set up properly.

And I'm not having a go at Adama - it just isn't his game. I can see how it can work in certain games and situations. Not starting vs Chelsea.

 

[t3ch]

Masochist! My eyes bled first time around! Better second half

No that was my first time, to be clear. :icon_lol:

I have class saturday mornings so can't always watch live (typically 10am here). I avoid the forum and general sports social media/reporting until I have a chance to watch.

 

[Premier Quality]

It's open season down there is the point. They probably don't even play down that side if we're set up properly.

And I'm not having a go at Adama - it just isn't his game. I can see how it can work in certain games and situations. Not starting vs Chelsea.

Okay, so you’re saying there’s a general issue down that side - but the statement that it was that that caused goals 2 and 3 is correct because even though Traore can’t be directly blamed for either of them, there’s a general “they could have scored from down that side, even though they didn’t”?

Logically it should be “there’s a general hole down that side that Chelsea could have scored from, even though they didn’t. Doherty coming in would stop it being an issue in future matches” and the statement that it was responsible for goals 2+3 is wrong?