Wolves 0-2 Brentford: Verdict Thread

[Deutsch Wolf]

So should we have beaten man u, Leicester or Spurs?

Just seems a bit harsh to criticise Lage for losing games that, on paper anyway, we'd be expected to lose?

Brighton just managed to beat Leicester, Palace managed to beat Spurs, handsomely as well.

Are they miles better than us now?

 

[YoungWolf]

Think four points minimum needed from these next two league games really.

Bruno was let down by the board not giving him the centre back and midfielder he obviously wanted (and that we all pretty much agree we need) but as Dan says, it isn't a relegation squad.

 

[YoungWolf]

So should we have beaten man u, Leicester or Spurs?

Just seems a bit harsh to criticise Lage for losing games that, on paper anyway, we'd be expected to lose?

but we also lost to Brentford at home...

 

[AndyWolves]

Brighton just managed to beat Leicester, Palace managed to beat Spurs, handsomely as well.

Are they miles better than us now?

At the moment, yes, I'd say Brighton and palace are better than we are.

 

[AndyWolves]

but we also lost to Brentford at home...

And beat Watford away.

He's won 50% of the games I'd expect us to have won. I wasn't completely convinced we'd beat Brentford anyway.

It's been 5 games

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

At the moment, yes, I'd say Brighton and palace are better than we are.

Good stuff, great progress then.

Do you not find it remotely odd that a manager has lost 4 out of his first 5 games and seems to be avoiding scrutiny to a large degree? Because I do. Frank de Boer got sacked for losing his first four not so long ago.

I repeat, it isn't all his fault. Some of it is though. And by any stretch it's a shit start, we don't write off games, do we.

 

[AndyWolves]

Good stuff, great progress then.

Do you not find it remotely odd that a manager has lost 4 out of his first 5 games and seems to be avoiding scrutiny to a large degree? Because I do. Frank de Boer got sacked for losing his first four not so long ago.

I repeat, it isn't all his fault. Some of it is though. And by any stretch it's a shit start, we don't write off games, do we.

I don't think losing to teams like man United, Leicester and Spurs can attract that much criticism to be honest. We gave a good account of ourselves in all those games.

There has only been one game so far which deserves criticism and that's the Brentford game.

If we don't get results over the next 3-5 games then yes, Lage will get every bit of criticism he deserves.

To simply quote the games he's lost without factoring in the opposition isn't fair. If you're going to do that then you should also give him credit for the 4 goals we scored against Forest, after all, we count all games dont we?

 

[Johnny75]

We scored two of those four goals with Adama on the pitch

By your logic we should also drop Sa for Ruddy, Neves for Donk and Raul for Fabio?

You're entitled to your belief that we'd be a better/more fluid team without Traore, but there's no game evidence to back that up, you're talking about microscopically miniscule samples to back up your existing bias.

Whereas you have your own......????

Because I've seen you say nothing positive about Adama, only criticising others.

What is it about Adama you like so much?

His xA, xG, crossing ability, assists, goals, shooting, the way he oils his arms?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

To simply quote the games he's lost without factoring in the opposition isn't fair. If you're going to do that then you should also give him credit for the 4 goals we scored against Forest, after all, we count all games dont we?

Nope, I don't give a shit about the League Cup.

And beating a team who are bottom of the Championship, big wow. Might come in handy next year I suppose

 

[Johnny75]

And beat Watford away.

He's won 50% of the games I'd expect us to have won. I wasn't completely convinced we'd beat Brentford anyway.

It's been 5 games

On paper we would've been expected to beat Brentford, which is what your argument is based on isn't it?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

By the way you can't say "no criticism" about the first three games. Finishing is quite a big part of football. We were rubbish at it. Didn't keep any clean sheets either, and all the goals we gave away were due to poor play along the way.

 

[Johnny75]

I don't think losing to teams like man United, Leicester and Spurs can attract that much criticism to be honest. We gave a good account of ourselves in all those games.

There has only been one game so far which deserves criticism and that's the Brentford game.

If we don't get results over the next 3-5 games then yes, Lage will get every bit of criticism he deserves.

To simply quote the games he's lost without factoring in the opposition isn't fair. If you're going to do that then you should also give him credit for the 4 goals we scored against Forest, after all, we count all games dont we?

If we have 1 win after 10 games he'll be sacked and we'll go down.

 

[PuntsWolf]

yes it was three tough opening games, but Leicester have already lost three times in the league, and Spurs have lost their last two by an aggregate of 0-6, so...). The reaction to the three 0-1s was outright daft, yes they were entertaining games (especially compared to last season) but we still lost them all and didn't score.

I do think too much slack has been given to the first 3 games. Spurs haven’t deserved to win a single game this season for me, Leicester shouldnt be a guaranteed defeat and neither should United (particularly pre Ronaldo).

Performances are good but we still didn’t score, needed an OG to get going against Watford and then didn’t have a Shot on target against Brentford at home who were down to 10 for 40 mins.

There’s still the benefit of the doubt. But if we can’t score but aren’t picking up 0-0s then we have a big problem on our hands. It’s a big 2 weeks.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

So apparently Brighton and Palace are now better than us and we should just accept that.

We finished 21, 18 and 4 points above Brighton in the last three seasons. 8, 16 and 1 point above Palace, and apparently we were total shit last season and everything needed to change.

But now mere months later they're just better than us, they can beat Leicester and Spurs, we just can't, it's not fair to think we can and we may as well be thankful for our 0 points. Palace of course managed by Patrick Vieira who I think a grand total of 0 people on here would have endorsed if we'd appointed him.

Alrighty then.

By the way if we have that mindset then there are about six teams we should beat and we'll have to beat them all home and away or we're going down. Crazy stuff.

 

[prawnking]

Whereas you have your own......????

Because I've seen you say nothing positive about Adama, only criticising others.

What is it about Adama you like so much?

His xA, xG, crossing ability, assists, goals, shooting, the way he oils his arms?

What is it about Adama that Nuno and now Bruno like so much?

It doesn't have to be a choice between 'Adama is crap and should be dropped and sold' and 'Adama is great'. I see his flaws, I also see his abilities (are you as fair in your assessment?). Most of our team have both of those sides to their ledgers too.

Most importantly, I don't see any other fit member of the squad who's a dead cert to take his place and make us more successful.

I wouldn't mind seeing Hwang in the team soon, but that may as well be for Trincao or Raul, as Adama

 

[slink]

I do think too much slack has been given to the first 3 games. Spurs haven’t deserved to win a single game this season for me, Leicester shouldnt be a guaranteed defeat and neither should United (particularly pre Ronaldo).

Performances are good but we still didn’t score, needed an OG to get going against Watford and then didn’t have a Shot on target against Brentford at home who were down to 10 for 40 mins.

There’s still the benefit of the doubt. But if we can’t score but aren’t picking up 0-0s then we have a big problem on our hands. It’s a big 2 weeks.

I don't think too much slack was given to the first 3 games, we played well and deserved more than we got in all 3 games but errors at both ends let us and Bruno down. I don't think you can hold that against Bruno yet but some seem very keen to but he deserves at least another 5 games to see what he can get out of this squad.

It isn't a relegation level squad, proved by 4 of the 5 games and it is very fine margins. Had Adama scored one of his two one on ones or Saiss scored against United we wouldn't be having these discussions, yet here we are because we lost our heads against Brentford for a spell talking about relegation and being better than other sides etc. The argument that some team beat some other team is absolute bollocks too, just for example... (appreciate that's not a point you've made)

We should have got at least a point at Leicester and more but Leicester deserved more than they got at Brighton yesterday but didn't due to VAR and so you can't really base it on a game by game basis. Another example Watford beat Villa and are ahead of us in the table but we were much better than them last week and fully deserved the win. The league is 38 games for a reason.

I think when it comes to Lage i think we can criticise decisions he makes in terms of tactics, subs etc but it's very harsh that he seems to be getting some criticism because we've missed sitters in every game so far. He's got a real chance to get some of the players who have been on the bench the last few games in to the 11 for the weekend particularly at the back and hopefully the mistakes will go but when it comes to the forward players i don't think he has a clinical player at his disposal and that's not something he can really work on.

I think my point mainly is that while it's obvious we need to start picking up points it's been a very quick turnaround in a week to the thinking about the team or some can't wait to put some digs in when i would say there isn't much to criticise Bruno with at the moment when you break all the games down and don't just look at it in terms of results. Understand it's a results based business but we need to have open minds for a while imo.

 

[Tony Towner]

My realiatic ambition at the start of the season was 10 points from the first 7 games. That I would say would be par for a mid table side not worried by relegation.
Lose to Leicester
Draw with Utd, Spurs, Watford and Southampton
Beat Brentford and Newcastle

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's not a case of "can't wait to put digs in", we have made an objectively shit start and we were awful on Saturday.

Ok then, why is our entire gameplan based on crossing the ball when we have one (ONE) player in the entire starting XI who might score from one of those from open play, and he hasn't looked too flash at it so far?

 

[Johnny75]

What is it about Adama that Nuno and now Bruno like so much?

It doesn't have to be a choice between 'Adama is crap and should be dropped and sold' and 'Adama is great'. I see his flaws, I also see his abilities (are you as fair in your assessment?). Most of our team have both of those sides to their ledgers too.

Most importantly, I don't see any other fit member of the squad who's a dead cert to take his place and make us more successful.

I wouldn't mind seeing Hwang in the team soon, but that may as well be for Trincao or Raul, as Adama

So what is it you like about Adama?

 

[prawnking]

Ok then, why is our entire gameplan based on crossing the ball when we have one (ONE) player in the entire starting XI who might score from one of those from open play, and he hasn't looked too flash at it so far?

Tbf I think that's only really been the case against Brentford, when we collectively lost our shit and reverted back to last season, where we definitely only had 'hopeful cross' or 'hopeful long shot' as the two arrows to our bow