West Ham 2-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Perhaps my point is this: I don't think Lemina being captain has had any significant impact one way or the other, as I generally think the perceived importance placed on it is wildly overstated. That's not a new stance for me.

I think it's understated, because it's not something that is tangible to us as fans.

We don't see them training, them on the bus/plane, or in the changing rooms, in the whatsapp groups, we don't see his overall influence, or lack of it. We just see the 90 mins once a week or less.

So it's easy to say it doesn't have an impact, because where it would have a large amount of impact is in areas that we just don't see it.

 

[Alan]

I think it's understated, because it's not something that is tangible to us as fans.

My line has always been that leaders will be leaders whether they have an extra strap of polyester on their bicep or not.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

My line has always been that leaders will be leaders whether they have an extra strap of polyester on their bicep or not.

Great.

But if they haven't been given the authority to be a leader, they won't.

 

[Alan]

Great.

But if they haven't been given the authority to be a leader, they won't.

Just can't buy that, personally.

 

[Alan]

At least give counters like EP and Louie have, Mark. I probably won't agree with them, but it's well more constructive and interesting than chucking tomatoes from the peanut gallery.

 

[Banjo]

Captaincy can ruin a player and it has definitely done this to Lemina. Crying on the pitch earlier in the season and starting fights after a match today (including having a go at Toti, who was trying to calm him down) are not signs of a dressing room leader.

Manny Singh Kang was behind us today and he said to us after the game, "you'd never see Conor Coady doing something like that" as Lemina was being dragged away by about three people from trying to fight Bowen - he's right.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

The wider majority can be found getting plenty of airtime on various podcasts and channels. VAR this, poor old Gaz that. Turns out they were wrong and now we’re fucked.

Which podcasts are pro Gone? I.listen to a few, the Wolves report, Wolves 77, Talking Wolves and they've wanted him out for weeks?

Edit: I didn't even mean to write "Gone" there

 

[PuntsWolf]

I've never heard a manager get such a pass from the media before like this.

He had that list of players rehearsed, no way he reeled all those off the top of his head

He even said Diego Costa!

 

[Tony Towner]

I simply think this overlooks the impact of our dire run, with a totally rudderless manager, on the mentality of the players.

If someone (maybe even you!) thought he was a bad choice at the time, fair enough.

Perhaps my point is this: I don't think Lemina being captain has had any significant impact one way or the other, as I generally think the perceived importance placed on it is wildly overstated. That's not a new stance for me.

I agree it's often overstated, however it has clearly had a detrimental impact on the way he plays. From the first game of the season he's been trying to lead from the front, his definition of which has been to fly around the pitch getting pulled out of position in search of the ball and try and do too much with it in possession. It's also messed with him emotionally, his post Liverpool reaction isn't a productive one for him, the fans or the rest of the players and that was in September.

I'd have made him captain, I'd also have taken it off when when it was clear it was actively damaging him and the wider team, even though there's not an obvious candidate to take it.

 

[Alan]

Well I’m still glad he made me feel something

 

[Indy Wolf]

Pathetic. That light at the end of the tunnel... It's an oncoming Freight Train

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Pathetic. That light at the end of the tunnel... It's an oncoming Freight Train

Where every day is National Shite Day….

 

[Jinky]

Away from Gaz & Lemina for a minute, on the actual match, I thought West Ham looked bang average under Lop. Hugely helped out by our inability to defend a set piece (15 goals conceded from set pieces this season so far is a record according to Carragher - it wouldn’t surprise me) & our own mental fragility/lack of concentration when we score. Any other season I think they’d be in trouble but they’ll stay up through being marginally better than three other sides. Also had all the Antonio stuff (get well soon) going on last night to bring them and the crowd together.

We’ve arrived at a point where Matt Doherty looks our most competent player in 2024 across the last two games.

Old news at this point, but didn’t get the substitutions at all. It was screaming out for Forbes’ pace and direct style. Let him get the ball, run with it, stretch the play and get crosses in - what we got instead was Gaz hooking our centre forward and bringing Bellegarde on. No idea.

We’ll go down because we completely deserve it, even though much of it was completely unavoidable and our own doing - but I think it’s only a matter of time before Lop goes at West Ham, because they looked pretty poor too.

 

[Carsy]

Doesn’t help with refereeing decisions like last night.

There first isn’t a corner.
2nd foul on bueno
1 penalty for me, other contactable.

That being said, first goal again free header - looked 2 poor teams.

Time has to be up, though. Don’t dislike the bloke, but out of his depth. Last night didn’t really show anything.

Also some things just seem to stick and become a habit, and the GoN vs Var decisions. Just think for everyone it’s best he goes. Should’ve happened weeks ago, mind

 

[Dairve Ayeye]

Fuck it, let's give GON the Ipswich game, maybe he'll w

Go & support WBA.

Funny you should say that, my old man said be an Albion fan...

 

[The Bear]

I've got no issues with the 1st goal being a corner. Almost impossible for the on field officials to spot.l that. And VAR can't get involved. We have to defend the corner better which is the biggest issue there.

The foul on Bueno is unacceptable though. I'm sure there was an identical foul given as a penalty for a slblatant shove in the back in last week's games in the Prem too. I can't remember it offhand now though.

The Bellegarde one should be a penalty but I've seen them not given before for treading on a foot. The issue is it looks like he's delayed going down purely because he already had that foot planted and wasn't tripped or anything. The pundits and comms didn't seem to understand that subtlety.

 

[Tony Towner]

It's another of those grey areas, but there's an argument that any foul on Bueno is too far back in terms of passage of play to pull it back as Bellegarde has chance to clear it and it just bounces off him.
LL says Guedes penalty which didn't matter in the end was outside of the area as per VAR. Didn't look that way to me, Bellegardes didn't even make the Sky 3 minute highlights so can't be a howler

 

[The Bear]

The hand goes on his back outside the area, but the actual shove was inside.

Sky seemed to be referencing his boot catching him outside the area which I thought was strange as that wasn't the issue.

 

[Carsy]

I've got no issues with the 1st goal being a corner. Almost impossible for the on field officials to spot.l that. And VAR can't get involved. We have to defend the corner better which is the biggest issue there.

The foul on Bueno is unacceptable though. I'm sure there was an identical foul given as a penalty for a slblatant shove in the back in last week's games in the Prem too. I can't remember it offhand now though.

The Bellegarde one should be a penalty but I've seen them not given before for treading on a foot. The issue is it looks like he's delayed going down purely because he already had that foot planted and wasn't tripped or anything. The pundits and comms didn't seem to understand that subtlety.

I have more of an issue with the abject defending, but still it’s not a corner.

These sort of things mask over the situation though and can be used as an excuse. They shouldn’t. It’s time to go.

He’s become a magnet for contentious decision also. Now, I am in no way suggesting he is being targeted, or it’s anything but coincidental, but sometimes bad luck can just get stuck to you.

Get someone else in, will still give us a fighting chance.

I do think it’s like putting a plaster on a broken leg though, and whilst we are operating the way we are with Fosun, it’s only a matter of time

 

[Deano]

I think a lot of people overrated/overestimate our players. O'Neil has had ample time to turn results around now and can have no complaints when he is inevitably sacked but I don't see a way this squad stays up anyway. With the defense we have, we are going down regardless the best we can hope for is to be in touching distance when the window opens and to buy some new players. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like much is going to be made available.