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Trump

I worry about the man's intelligence when he states that his policy for ISIS (bar bombing the fuck out of them) is to starve them of oil. Perhaps someone should tell him that ISIS territory is basically a fuck off great oil field.
 
So Long Architect said:
Yeah, this is a pertinent point. Trump has no love of NATO and doesn't believe that an attack on one of its members necessarily requires a response from the others, so we can expect quite an isolationist foreign policy.

I don't share Penk's optimism that we're past the time of wars. It was only the 1990s when we saw terrible bloodshed in the Balkans, in countries that are now nice tourist destinations within the EU (and where they still find mass graves from time to time). I think complacency that such things will never happen again is misplaced.

If Putin decides to grab a little bit of territory here and there, is Donald really going to care? And if he doesn't care the first time, what's to stop Putin just carrying on?

I'm not suggesting we're on the brink of a Russian invasion of Western Europe, but the days of our US security blanket may be coming to an end. After all, they've only really provided that "service" for around a century - nothing to say it has to always be that way.
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It's not by accident that Putin favoured a Trump win, the man is such a mental midget and a diplomatic moron. I don't necessarily see Russian tanks crossing into eastern Poland anytime soon but I expect the Baltic states might getting twitchy backsides.
 
Anyone thinking that the GOP will be able to reign in Trump seem to be forgetting the other side of this. Many of these guys have crazy right wing views of their own and now have free reign to pass whatever insane legislation they want. Trump will sign any bill they put in front of him as long as they don't piss him off too much.
 
And there might be some interesting Supreme Court appointments. Women of America, say goodbye to the abortion rights you've only had since 1973. But since a good amount of you clearly voted for this, it must be what you want.
 
So Long Architect said:
And there might be some interesting Supreme Court appointments. Women of America, say goodbye to the abortion rights you've only had since 1973. But since a good amount of you clearly voted for this, it must be what you want.
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Correct. Mike Pence signed a bill (eventually thrown out) that mandated funerals for aborted foetuses. That guy is VP.
 
Europe's far right parties will be emboldened further by this too. I know that makes some on here get a little erection, but even a cursory glance at Europe's recent history should lead anyone to conclude it's not a positive thing.
 
When Le Pen is celebrating then what is being celebrated is probably NOT A GOOD THING
 
Lycan said:
Correct. Mike Pence signed a bill (eventually thrown out) that mandated funerals for aborted foetuses. That guy is VP.
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He favours the gold standard too. Excellent, 1920s economics. Can't see how that could go wrong.
 
So Long Architect said:
Europe's far right parties will be emboldened further by this too. I know that makes some on here get a little erection, but even a cursory glance at Europe's recent history should lead anyone to conclude it's not a positive thing.
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Could prove that Brexit was the right thing. If Germany and France end up leaving we'd have hell of a problem on our plate if we were left in, although I'm sure it will die if they both leave too.
 
Penk Wolf said:
Do you think his congress will allow him to finish the wall that Obama started?

Do you think congress will allow him to ban Muslims from entering the U.S.

He doesn't just decide what he wants to happen then that becomes law.
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The Obama Wall. Myth or truth?
 
He is not going to be throwing nukes around the place, despite what people think he ain't that stupid, hopefully he will listen to the analysists etc, but he wont be in any rush to help countries when Russia (as someone said the Baltics) and China (in the South China Sea) start flexing their muscles, he will quickly find out there is no-easy quick fix in the Middle East.

As a businessman he does think he knows better then the economists about the economy, and he can do long term damage there, he will get rid of the vast majority of banking regulations, and of course London will have to follow and we all know how that turned out, he wont care about balancing the budget, will reduce personnel taxes and corporation tax, grand for short-term popularity but will cause long-term problems.

He will put in extreme right wing supreme court judges, so abortion bill, gay marriage etc will be in the firing line etc.

He wont be able to do his extreme headline acts, immigration, the wall etc.
 
Donegal Wolf said:
He is not going to be throwing nukes around the place, despite what people think he ain't that stupid, hopefully he will listen to the analysists etc, but he wont be in any rush to help countries when Russia (as someone said the Baltics) and China (in the South China Sea) start flexing their muscles, he will quickly find out there is no-easy quick fix in the Middle East.

As a businessman he does think he knows better then the economists about the economy, and he can do long term damage there, he will get rid of the vast majority of banking regulations, and of course London will have to follow and we all know how that turned out, he wont care about balancing the budget, will reduce personnel taxes and corporation tax, grand for short-term popularity but will cause long-term problems.

He will put in extreme right wing supreme court judges, so abortion bill, gay marriage etc will be in the firing line etc.

He wont be able to do his extreme headline acts, immigration, the wall etc.
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Unlikely he's going to chuck nukes at China, but very likely he'll say knock yourself out if Israel fancy lobing a tactical at a slowly reforming Iran. He sees the EU as an enemy so I wonder how that's going to play out over here in terms of the peace we have mostly enjoyed the last 70 years.

I don't expect a sudden deterioration of stability in Europe but as the father of an 8 year old lad I do worry about what might happen in 10-15,years. Nothing, absolutely nothing, can be taken for granted at this point. It could be the 20s and 30s all over again.
 
Just to move away from the wailing and gnashing of teeth for a minute. I would like to give a little bit of a view gained from a group of Trump voters from why people voted for Trump and the GOP (I don't necessarily agree with their views by the way).

I have spent the last week in America's mid-west with a customer of mine, they are all cowboys, not the builder type but actual beef rearing cowboys. And as you might guess they are all Republicans, some more conservative than others. I also got to watch a bit of the news coverage over there which is so different to ours it renders our coverage mute in building a discussion as we literally have had only one side of this, that is to the shame of the BBC.

The biggest message that came across from all of the people I met (which was only a few hundred) was that anybody could have stood for the GOP as they would get the vote as they weren't Hilary Clinton, it was quite hard to understand why this was at first but the impression I got was that the hatred for Hilary was pretty much universal. She was a symbol of people being shafted right across the country, from the rust belt, to the working towns of middle and industrial America through to the rednecks and cowboys of the deep south. She didn't even resonate well with women voters as she represented a person who was only out for herself and was using womenhood as a vehicle to get herself in the Whitehouse.

The constant use of celebrities to endorse her wore thin on everybody and as a neutral in this I found that it was a pretty tasteless and trivial thing to do and deflected away from the politics itself.

The elephant in the room was and is the Clinton Foundation, sponsored by various countries with dubious motives and giving out handouts to people in power. It stank and we would not allow it in Britain. Even if she was squeaky clean then this foundation is morally bankrupt and the people I met were genuinely irked by this. It was literally the establishment buying power and taking themselves further from the voters they were supposed to represent.

On policy sides most people were bothered with the health insurance scam that seems to be going on. Rightly or wrongly this is blamed on Obama (I don't think that's necessarily the case) and it's a mess, a couple of people I spoke to had seen their premiums go from $500 per month to $1200pm. I thought the $500 was a lot but to go up by over double and still not cover all the costs (that was 80% coverage) is pretty steep. When I questioned this one guy said that he would prefer the old system but others said they want anything but this. I asked if they would be happy to pay a flat tax that would be taken by the government but all healthcare was free and the overwhelming answer was yes, and these were conservative men. Trump has not advocated this but these particular people said that he would win a lot of the poor votes if he did this.

It would also be fair to say that Trump picked up a lot of the working class votes because he is seen to represent them in their working and religious beliefs. Gay marriage is still an issue for lots of people I have found and abortion is a hot topic. We will have different views on that and more akin to NY, Boston and California but middle America and working class America don't think like we do and they have mobilised. These cowboys were obviously against both policies and many were offended by them and see Hilary as not listening to them.

As far as working goes it is seen that Hilary is only looking after number 1 and that she is part of the establishment that has not looked after workers rights and will continue to ignore them.

It is worth noting that the people I spoke to also did not like Trump and it was his running mate Mike Pence that they identified with. I had no clue who Pence was until they explained to me what he did and who he was. To a man they said without Pence Trump would not have any support and they all thought Trump was a dummy and that the GOP members and Pence will keep him inline against the Russians and ISIS. They also thought that Hilary was the greater warmonger of the two and more likely to invade Syria than Trump or the GOP. They had no proof of this but then they know the rhetoric better than I could ever know.

As I said at the start these are not my views (bar the BBC and media coverage) but those of a smallish (maybe 200) midwest group on why they have voted Trump and why they see Hilary as a very bad candidate.
 
After an initial spike in the value of the pound against the dollar after the result, it's settled back down again. Not even the election of a dangerous racist demagogue can make the pound look attractive!
 
Of course it is. Obama wasn't elected until 2008 so it was a GEORGE BUSH fence.
 
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