Trump

[Paddingtonwolf]

REPUBLICAN fence then. Exactly the bloody point.

 

[So Long Architect]

Just so long as the VP takes control of the issue now so it can be the Pence Fence.

And if Donald doesn't rename Washington as Trumpton, I'm going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[Penk Wolf]

REPUBLICAN fence then. Exactly the bloody point.

Which was carried on by Obama administration. And the POINT that I was making is that it's Trump's idea to build a wall.

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

Just to move away from the wailing and gnashing of teeth for a minute. I would like to give a little bit of a view gained from a group of Trump voters from why people voted for Trump and the GOP (I don't necessarily agree with their views by the way).

I have spent the last week in America's mid-west with a customer of mine, they are all cowboys, not the builder type but actual beef rearing cowboys. And as you might guess they are all Republicans, some more conservative than others. I also got to watch a bit of the news coverage over there which is so different to ours it renders our coverage mute in building a discussion as we literally have had only one side of this, that is to the shame of the BBC.

The biggest message that came across from all of the people I met (which was only a few hundred) was that anybody could have stood for the GOP as they would get the vote as they weren't Hilary Clinton, it was quite hard to understand why this was at first but the impression I got was that the hatred for Hilary was pretty much universal. She was a symbol of people being shafted right across the country, from the rust belt, to the working towns of middle and industrial America through to the rednecks and cowboys of the deep south. She didn't even resonate well with women voters as she represented a person who was only out for herself and was using womenhood as a vehicle to get herself in the Whitehouse.

The constant use of celebrities to endorse her wore thin on everybody and as a neutral in this I found that it was a pretty tasteless and trivial thing to do and deflected away from the politics itself.

The elephant in the room was and is the Clinton Foundation, sponsored by various countries with dubious motives and giving out handouts to people in power. It stank and we would not allow it in Britain. Even if she was squeaky clean then this foundation is morally bankrupt and the people I met were genuinely irked by this. It was literally the establishment buying power and taking themselves further from the voters they were supposed to represent.

On policy sides most people were bothered with the health insurance scam that seems to be going on. Rightly or wrongly this is blamed on Obama (I don't think that's necessarily the case) and it's a mess, a couple of people I spoke to had seen their premiums go from $500 per month to $1200pm. I thought the $500 was a lot but to go up by over double and still not cover all the costs (that was 80% coverage) is pretty steep. When I questioned this one guy said that he would prefer the old system but others said they want anything but this. I asked if they would be happy to pay a flat tax that would be taken by the government but all healthcare was free and the overwhelming answer was yes, and these were conservative men. Trump has not advocated this but these particular people said that he would win a lot of the poor votes if he did this.

It would also be fair to say that Trump picked up a lot of the working class votes because he is seen to represent them in their working and religious beliefs. Gay marriage is still an issue for lots of people I have found and abortion is a hot topic. We will have different views on that and more akin to NY, Boston and California but middle America and working class America don't think like we do and they have mobilised. These cowboys were obviously against both policies and many were offended by them and see Hilary as not listening to them.

As far as working goes it is seen that Hilary is only looking after number 1 and that she is part of the establishment that has not looked after workers rights and will continue to ignore them.

It is worth noting that the people I spoke to also did not like Trump and it was his running mate Mike Pence that they identified with. I had no clue who Pence was until they explained to me what he did and who he was. To a man they said without Pence Trump would not have any support and they all thought Trump was a dummy and that the GOP members and Pence will keep him inline against the Russians and ISIS. They also thought that Hilary was the greater warmonger of the two and more likely to invade Syria than Trump or the GOP. They had no proof of this but then they know the rhetoric better than I could ever know.

As I said at the start these are not my views (bar the BBC and media coverage) but those of a smallish (maybe 200) midwest group on why they have voted Trump and why they see Hilary as a very bad candidate.

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest that they like Pence, an ultra conservative xtian. However on the flipside the Democratic Party have to shoulder much of the blame, they could literally have fielded a dead goat against Trump and would have won, but no the best the DNC could come up with was Clinton, a woman almost universally disliked by those on the right and left.

 

[Norman Deeley]

Great post, Johnny. Far more on the money than the vast majority of our media.

 

[Del Woppio]

Interesting insight Johnny, thanks for that.

 

[AndyWolves]

I'm still coming to terms with this result. Part of me is worried about the direction the world is heading in now with right wing becoming more and more popular.

I still don't know why people voted for brexit and I still can't reconcile peoplease voting for Trump. Seeing what he's been saying and what he stands for - how can you vote for him to be your leader and representative to the rest of the world? Will he build that wall he promised? Will he give the UK a decent trade deal?

 

[Lycan]

Mike 'Evolution is just a theory' Pence is a nutjob.

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

Mike 'Evolution is just a theory' Pence is a nutjob.

He'll probably give the job of Health Secretary to Ben Carson because "you know, he's operated on brains and stuff", despite the fact that Carson thinks the pyramids were built by Joseph to store grain.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

Just to move away from the wailing and gnashing of teeth for a minute. I would like to give a little bit of a view gained from a group of Trump voters from why people voted for Trump and the GOP (I don't necessarily agree with their views by the way).

I have spent the last week in America's mid-west with a customer of mine, they are all cowboys, not the builder type but actual beef rearing cowboys. And as you might guess they are all Republicans, some more conservative than others. I also got to watch a bit of the news coverage over there which is so different to ours it renders our coverage mute in building a discussion as we literally have had only one side of this, that is to the shame of the BBC.

The biggest message that came across from all of the people I met (which was only a few hundred) was that anybody could have stood for the GOP as they would get the vote as they weren't Hilary Clinton, it was quite hard to understand why this was at first but the impression I got was that the hatred for Hilary was pretty much universal. She was a symbol of people being shafted right across the country, from the rust belt, to the working towns of middle and industrial America through to the rednecks and cowboys of the deep south. She didn't even resonate well with women voters as she represented a person who was only out for herself and was using womenhood as a vehicle to get herself in the Whitehouse.

The constant use of celebrities to endorse her wore thin on everybody and as a neutral in this I found that it was a pretty tasteless and trivial thing to do and deflected away from the politics itself.

The elephant in the room was and is the Clinton Foundation, sponsored by various countries with dubious motives and giving out handouts to people in power. It stank and we would not allow it in Britain. Even if she was squeaky clean then this foundation is morally bankrupt and the people I met were genuinely irked by this. It was literally the establishment buying power and taking themselves further from the voters they were supposed to represent.

On policy sides most people were bothered with the health insurance scam that seems to be going on. Rightly or wrongly this is blamed on Obama (I don't think that's necessarily the case) and it's a mess, a couple of people I spoke to had seen their premiums go from $500 per month to $1200pm. I thought the $500 was a lot but to go up by over double and still not cover all the costs (that was 80% coverage) is pretty steep. When I questioned this one guy said that he would prefer the old system but others said they want anything but this. I asked if they would be happy to pay a flat tax that would be taken by the government but all healthcare was free and the overwhelming answer was yes, and these were conservative men. Trump has not advocated this but these particular people said that he would win a lot of the poor votes if he did this.

It would also be fair to say that Trump picked up a lot of the working class votes because he is seen to represent them in their working and religious beliefs. Gay marriage is still an issue for lots of people I have found and abortion is a hot topic. We will have different views on that and more akin to NY, Boston and California but middle America and working class America don't think like we do and they have mobilised. These cowboys were obviously against both policies and many were offended by them and see Hilary as not listening to them.

As far as working goes it is seen that Hilary is only looking after number 1 and that she is part of the establishment that has not looked after workers rights and will continue to ignore them.

It is worth noting that the people I spoke to also did not like Trump and it was his running mate Mike Pence that they identified with. I had no clue who Pence was until they explained to me what he did and who he was. To a man they said without Pence Trump would not have any support and they all thought Trump was a dummy and that the GOP members and Pence will keep him inline against the Russians and ISIS. They also thought that Hilary was the greater warmonger of the two and more likely to invade Syria than Trump or the GOP. They had no proof of this but then they know the rhetoric better than I could ever know.

As I said at the start these are not my views (bar the BBC and media coverage) but those of a smallish (maybe 200) midwest group on why they have voted Trump and why they see Hilary as a very bad candidate.

Great insight Johnny, thanks for that. It ties in with the views of an American semi retired business man who stayed recently with a neighbour of mine.
He said Obama has completely emasculated the armed forces in particular the army and many people would vote the other way because of what he's done to the Health Care Programme.
Though he also said that it's a bizarre state of affairs that's thrown up two candidates that no one likes. Although Trump wasn't the fucking idiot that he's perceived as over here. Again only the single side of the story. But whilst Trump wasn't the idiot that the British Press label him as, there's a very strong and deep dislike and mistrust of Clinton and everything she stands for....

So now we have what we have...

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Which was carried on by Obama administration. And the POINT that I was making is that it's Trump's idea to build a wall.

Was it carried on by Obama? The POINT you made was linking Obama to a wall. It wasn't a wall and it wasn't Obama.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Was it carried on by Obama? The POINT you made was linking Obama to a wall. It wasn't a wall and it wasn't Obama.

Thanks for telling me the point I was making and thanks for being wrong.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Thanks for telling me the point I was making and thanks for being wrong.

Will he be allowed to finish the wall Obama started?

Fair enough, it was a question rather than a point. A question based on false premise. Obama didn't start it. It isn't a wall.

Trump wants to build a wall, a solid structure along the entire border.

If you can't see the difference, you have no point to make.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Will he be allowed to finish the wall Obama started?

Fair enough, it was a question rather than a point. A question based on false premise. Obama didn't start it. It isn't a wall.

Trump wants to build a wall, a solid structure along the entire border.

If you can't see the difference, you have no point to make.

Okay.

 

[UKYankieWWFC]

Just to move away from the wailing and gnashing of teeth for a minute. I would like to give a little bit of a view gained from a group of Trump voters from why people voted for Trump and the GOP (I don't necessarily agree with their views by the way).

I have spent the last week in America's mid-west with a customer of mine, they are all cowboys, not the builder type but actual beef rearing cowboys. And as you might guess they are all Republicans, some more conservative than others. I also got to watch a bit of the news coverage over there which is so different to ours it renders our coverage mute in building a discussion as we literally have had only one side of this, that is to the shame of the BBC.

The biggest message that came across from all of the people I met (which was only a few hundred) was that anybody could have stood for the GOP as they would get the vote as they weren't Hilary Clinton, it was quite hard to understand why this was at first but the impression I got was that the hatred for Hilary was pretty much universal. She was a symbol of people being shafted right across the country, from the rust belt, to the working towns of middle and industrial America through to the rednecks and cowboys of the deep south. She didn't even resonate well with women voters as she represented a person who was only out for herself and was using womenhood as a vehicle to get herself in the Whitehouse.

The constant use of celebrities to endorse her wore thin on everybody and as a neutral in this I found that it was a pretty tasteless and trivial thing to do and deflected away from the politics itself.

The elephant in the room was and is the Clinton Foundation, sponsored by various countries with dubious motives and giving out handouts to people in power. It stank and we would not allow it in Britain. Even if she was squeaky clean then this foundation is morally bankrupt and the people I met were genuinely irked by this. It was literally the establishment buying power and taking themselves further from the voters they were supposed to represent.

On policy sides most people were bothered with the health insurance scam that seems to be going on. Rightly or wrongly this is blamed on Obama (I don't think that's necessarily the case) and it's a mess, a couple of people I spoke to had seen their premiums go from $500 per month to $1200pm. I thought the $500 was a lot but to go up by over double and still not cover all the costs (that was 80% coverage) is pretty steep. When I questioned this one guy said that he would prefer the old system but others said they want anything but this. I asked if they would be happy to pay a flat tax that would be taken by the government but all healthcare was free and the overwhelming answer was yes, and these were conservative men. Trump has not advocated this but these particular people said that he would win a lot of the poor votes if he did this.

It would also be fair to say that Trump picked up a lot of the working class votes because he is seen to represent them in their working and religious beliefs. Gay marriage is still an issue for lots of people I have found and abortion is a hot topic. We will have different views on that and more akin to NY, Boston and California but middle America and working class America don't think like we do and they have mobilised. These cowboys were obviously against both policies and many were offended by them and see Hilary as not listening to them.

As far as working goes it is seen that Hilary is only looking after number 1 and that she is part of the establishment that has not looked after workers rights and will continue to ignore them.

It is worth noting that the people I spoke to also did not like Trump and it was his running mate Mike Pence that they identified with. I had no clue who Pence was until they explained to me what he did and who he was. To a man they said without Pence Trump would not have any support and they all thought Trump was a dummy and that the GOP members and Pence will keep him inline against the Russians and ISIS. They also thought that Hilary was the greater warmonger of the two and more likely to invade Syria than Trump or the GOP. They had no proof of this but then they know the rhetoric better than I could ever know.

As I said at the start these are not my views (bar the BBC and media coverage) but those of a smallish (maybe 200) midwest group on why they have voted Trump and why they see Hilary as a very bad candidate.

That's a very good summary, I think you hit the nail on the head, this may not of been a vote for Trump but a vote against Clinton and all of her scandals.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

Trump wants to build a wall, a solid structure along the entire border.

Nothing to do with Trump so, a little sideways step, I see that Germany is building another wall about 6" higher than the Berlin Wall, to keep the Syrian refugees out of it's residential districts...

 

[Penk Wolf]

Will he be allowed to finish the wall Obama started?

Fair enough, it was a question rather than a point. A question based on false premise. Obama didn't start it. It isn't a wall.

Trump wants to build a wall, a solid structure along the entire border.

If you can't see the difference, you have no point to make.

My point was the wall wasn't instigated by Trump (Don't care whether it's brick, paper or mesh, it's a wall). I thought it was Obama's wall as it was his tenure that it was finished, but it appears to be Bush's wall. I didn't know whether Bush, Obama or Trump were Republicans or Democrats until today and I didn't know what the Republicans (should have done really) stood for until I looked, following Lycan's post about Republicans agreeing with Trump. Yes, America is fucked but not because Trump is in charged but because they have Republicans in charge.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

Screw the wall! The USA has just made a "Plank" their president!

 

[The Saturday Boy]

My point was the wall wasn't instigated by Trump (Don't care whether it's brick, paper or mesh, it's a wall). I thought it was Obama's wall as it was his tenure that it was finished, but it appears to be Bush's wall. I didn't know whether Bush, Obama or Trump were Republicans or Democrats until today and I didn't know what the Republicans (should have done really) stood for until I looked, following Lycan's post about Republicans agreeing with Trump. Yes, America is $#@!ed but not because Trump is in charged but because they have Republicans in charge.

Okay.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Nothing to do with Trump so, a little sideways step, I see that Germany is building another wall about 6" higher than the Berlin Wall, to keep the Syrian refugees out of it's residential districts...

It hasn't just been Germany - walls have been going up all over Europe and, in my opinion, the symbolism of this development is terrifying while at the same time is now normal.

We are watching our humanity eroded