Trump

[Bit on the shaggies]

A woman's right for abortion has not been removed by the state, Paddy. If they want an abortion, it has not been made illegal, just the state aren't going to fund it.

Not yet it hasn't.

 

[Derby Wolf]

Is this surprising given the USA hasnt ratified CEDAW? (Covenant for the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women)

Their obection was based on the clause (paraphrasing) which grants women access to the education and services to make free and informed choices about reproduction.

CEDAW was construed as a pro choice agenda.

 

[So Long Architect]

It's also not surprising because this measure is always reinstated when Republicans get back into office, (and rescinded when Democrats do). It was first put in place by Reagan. And there were similar measures put in place throughout the 70s.
America has never been comfortable with this issue and it's never been anything like as settled as it has over here.

 

[visage]

Its odd how the party of small government, that rails against any kind of interference in the affairs of individuals, seems so hell bent on deciding what a woman can do with her body.

They're pro-life up until the moment of birth.

 

[Squeeze]

It's the thin end of the wedge for sure. The ramifications for women who need that aid are huge in terms of the life chance inequalities such withdrawal means and further drives up risks to their long term health from botched back street abortions.
As Vis has just said some Pro life supporters (not all) don't consider what happens to that child after birth. Indeed perhaps as every child has the right to life in their view then they could help by fostering or adopting some of those children they so vehemently supported in the the womb or campaign for funds or better social security payments to support those children who were so wanted by them.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Not yet it hasn't.

Neither should it.

 

[Derby Wolf]

It's the thin end of the wedge for sure. The ramifications for women who need that aid are huge in terms of the life chance inequalities such withdrawal means and further drives up risks to their long term health from botched back street abortions.
As Vis has just said some Pro life supporters (not all) don't consider what happens to that child after birth. Indeed perhaps as every child has the right to life in their view then they could help by fostering or adopting some of those children they so vehemently supported in the the womb or campaign for funds or better social security payments to support those children who were so wanted by them.

Also an excellent point because the USA hasnt ratified the Convention on the Rights of rhe Child.

Combining not ratifying CEDAR with RTC you could easily make an argument that their concern with the unborn child is disengenuous and its rather an attempt at stifling womens rights and progress.

Odd that the democrats havent looked to enshrine womens rights or the republicans havent looked to enshrone childrens rights to strengthen their positions.

 

[Johnny75]

The elephant in the room is religion. Neither party can afford to offend a variety of crackpot religions that believe abortion is wrong.

 

[arklowolf]

The elephant in the room is religion. Neither party can afford to offend a variety of crackpot religions that believe abortion is wrong.

This is your opinion. And it is nonsense, for the following reasons;
A) Not all people who are opposed to abortion on demand are religious.
B) If the religions you refer to were 'crackpot' they would by definition be minorities and therefore it wouldn't matter to either party if they offended them.
There is a serious ethical question over life and death and the sanctity of it.
Just because someone doesn't hold the same view as you do on such an emotive subject you can't simply label them all as crackpots.
There are doctors, lawyers and politicians opposed to abortion are they all crackpots as well?

 

[The Bear]

It hasn't quite happened in America yet, but in Europe religions ARE minorities. Certainly in Britain anyway. I truly look forward to the day when they are classed as crackpot ideas, as they should be.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, there is good cause why Blair only really dialled up on the Catholicism once he left office. Religion does not play well in modern British politics. Although May is a devout Christian and will probably try her best to shoehorn it in where possible, moralising harridan and 1950s throwback that she is.

I don't think you'll see an openly atheist US President any time soon. Trump is no Christian, but he can't play that angle.

 

[So Long Architect]

This is your opinion. And it is nonsense, for the following reasons;
A) Not all people who are opposed to abortion on demand are religious.
B) If the religions you refer to were 'crackpot' they would by definition be minorities and therefore it wouldn't matter to either party if they offended them.
There is a serious ethical question over life and death and the sanctity of it.
Just because someone doesn't hold the same view as you do on such an emotive subject you can't simply label them all as crackpots.
There are doctors, lawyers and politicians opposed to abortion are they all crackpots as well?

Arklo the Wum pulls a serious face.:angry-smiley-034:

 

[arklowolf]

Now that IS wumming.
I don't know where I get that tag from. I've never been banned, threatened anyone etc. If my views wind people up tough. It's a two way street.
If we all agreed on everything there'd be no point in having a forum.

 

[arklowolf]

I'll get an answer from Johnny as to whether the doctors, lawyers and politicians are all crackpots sooner or later.

 

[So Long Architect]

Now that IS wumming.
I don't know where I get that tag from. I've never been banned, threatened anyone etc. If my views wind people up tough. It's a two way street.
If we all agreed on everything there'd be no point in having a forum.

Hey, you're free to post what you like. I always enjoy your posts but they're rarely more than lefty-baiting fishing trips. Forgive me if I don't take you too seriously when you play the straight man for a change.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'll accept there is a tiny, tiny section of secularists that are also anti-abortion, but it's such a miniscule portion of the population (it's counter-intuitive in essence for a start) that any debate is inevitably going to be framed around what some religious people believe and what everyone else believes. And as religion - in particular Christianity - is verging towards moribund status in the UK then you're never likely to get much traction behind an anti-abortion/pro-life stance.

 

[leedswolf]

Wow!!

 

[arklowolf]

Hey, you're free to post what you like. I always enjoy your posts but they're rarely more than lefty-baiting fishing trips. Forgive me if I don't take you too seriously when you play the straight man for a change.

Fair enough. Must admit I often post stuff off the cuff to play devil's advocate.
Abortion is one subject I do take seriously, partly because I know of two people that are alive, lovely people, who if things hadn't gone the way they did, might not of ever been here. I know of another child (a relative) born prematurely at 22-23 weeks and saved by the wonders of modern healthcare who, not only survived but is leading a normal, healthy life etc. Times change.
I don't particularly want to get into a debate about the pros and cons of abortion, religion or anything else but don't like to see subjects just categorised, ticked off and parked.
Not that I'm going to change much.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

Oh goody. Yet another political thread becomes thehistorymakers show.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Oh give over and stop with this unrelenting nonsense will you?