Traore the enigma

[Johnny75]

Dribbling is counter productive if team mates can't rely on the outcome being vaguely consistent however. The break away from the corner yesterday he had one man to beat, and under little pressing completely just miss controlled the ball directly to the only defender. It was utterly strange to watch a top level footballer do that. I am enamoured by his pace at times, however that is it. I'd rather Jota start over him and still feel like it was an utter waste of a transfer currently. He is like an 18million Joe Mason to me. In the sense I don't know what he actually is.

Agree with every word of this. He doesn't have the ability to read the game and that must be just as frustrating to his team mates as it is to us watching. At the moment he's a very bad purchase. If he were onloan I think you'd be hard pushed to find many fans that would covert it to a purchase.

Mark is right here, how can anybody play with a player who's biggest asset is his pace but stands still when you need him to be making runs at pace.

I have a problem with footballers that have zero awareness of the game they're playing and would rather have a David Silva/ Juan Mata/ Foden in my side than an Adama Traore/ Andros Townsend.

I'd sell him in January.

 

[Johnny75]

I think the issue for a fair few on here is not that everyone should bow down and worship the Adama - but that the level of criticism is unreasonable in comparison to others.

Adama was the best of our front three yesterday. He has the best xA stats of our If’s this season, but he’s the one who’s consistently called shit, a circus freak, a comedy footballer, whilst everyone else gets passed over with ‘they didn’t play well’.

For a forum that considers itself to like debate - it’s unbalanced and unreasonable. If Adama had played like Costa did yesterday, we’d never hear the end of it, but as it’s Costa, pretty much no comment, a ton of stuff about Adama instead.

Regardless of the performance, it’s Adama that gets called out.

It’s sad tbh.

You have officially become leader of the ADF. I gave you an assessment of all our IF's and DW did the same so your victimhood statement is wide of the mark. Costa got called out as utter garbage on Friday and I will tell you AGAIN to look at the match day threads early doors to see the vitriol aimed at Jota.

You're close to parody levels of defence now.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Agree with every word of this. He doesn't have the ability to read the game and that must be just as frustrating to his team mates as it is to us watching. At the moment he's a very bad purchase. If he were onloan I think you'd be hard pushed to find many fans that would covert it to a purchase.

Mark is right here, how can anybody play with a player who's biggest asset is his pace but stands still when you need him to be making runs at pace.

I have a problem with footballers that have zero awareness of the game they're playing and would rather have a David Silva/ Juan Mata/ Foden in my side than an Adama Traore/ Andros Townsend.

I'd sell him in January.

That is a ridiculous statement! Given the winning wonder goal Townsend scored yesterday your timing for that is also off.

My fear is that Neves will go in January but that's another thread!

 

[Tony Towner]

That's part of the problem you have with him, the lack of movement. So at the moment you can either try something akin to Friday, though please never take it to that extreme again, and let him chase things down or you have to play into his feet while he's standing still. Neither are ideal as they give opponents an opportunity to nullify him before the pace can even become a threat, Bamba did exactly that on Friday, just got really tight to him and more often than not he'd dispossessed him before he ever got chance to go through the gears.

Alan Hutton did it twice in the play off semis last year. For a full back with a game plan he's simple to defend against.

 

[Premier Quality]

There was one piece of play on Friday where he beat a couple of players and got in a good position but completely scuffed his shot but I agree about the movement, I just want him making those runs like you say. In theory his pace should push back a defence to allow more space for others too.

That’s definately a big issue of his, though I’d say it’s improved quite a bit, the run for Jiminez header against Huddersfield, the run to win the corner for docs goal against Cardiff we’re both on the move before the ball was played. He does still have moments of standing around watching for sure, but he’s better than he was at the start of the season.

 

[Premier Quality]

You have officially become leader of the ADF. I gave you an assessment of all our IF's and DW did the same so your victimhood statement is wide of the mark. Costa got called out as utter garbage on Friday and I will tell you AGAIN to look at the match day threads early doors to see the vitriol aimed at Jota.

You're close to parody levels of defence now.

Actually, it’s called balance - I understand you wouldn’t recognise what that looks like.

 

[StuardoWulf]

I think Adama is improving slightly but I dont like the long ball shit we played on Friday (I presume that we were playing this way for him to be more effective). I have stated before that all our forwards (excepting Jiminez) have been below par and constantly giving the ball away.
For me no-one is safe in the January window we surely will look to improve our front line. I just can't see Fosun taking the gamble of sticking with these players unless we have a dramatic uplift in performances prior.

To be clear I don't think Traore is good enough and the fact that player x,y and z isn't good enough either makes no difference.

We need interplay not Forrest Gump like runs. This stuff about scaring defenders to death is overdone, what scares them to death is movement and the creation of space in and around the box, twinned with slick passing and control and dare I say sticking the ball in the net.

additional: I think the fact that we know the others can play means it must be form (but thats a long time ago since anyone had a run of good form)
With Adama some people don't think he is or is going to be as a good a player as we have seen the others be. I am in that camp although not entrenched, Nuno may do something with him that will improve us.

 

[White Wolf]

Fact of the matter is Traore is our record signing. Inevitably this brings a certain expectation amongst the fans and most likely the owners. He should be objectively improving the team, and an important member of the team. Yet our record signing is someone who a lot of fans (myself included) would never want starting a match. Nuno made it clear that he wanted this player, he thought it would improve the team and he could improve Traore. There's always going to be a pressure to start Traore at the expense of someone else and to the detriment of the team.

We've paid £18m for a very specific scenario - games where the opposition are pushing for a goal late on and Traore can punish tired legs. Problem is he is nowhere near consistent enough to actually do this on a regular basis, most of the time he gets the basics wrong and messes up a basic pass, miscontrols it and kills the opportunity stone dead immediately, or makes the wrong decision (shoot/pass) to waste the chance. He's fast but just runs in a forward line so isn't exactly hard to defend against, and he starts much too deep, barely looking to make himself available, he just waits for the ball to arrive to him.

Like Dan said he's scored once so far with zero assists, he's hardly bossing it for us. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't do anything more for us this season either. Credit him for the first goal v Soton if you like but surely by the same logic you have to credit Helder the same for the goal against United. In terms of actual output there is nothing that makes Adama any better.

We paid a lot of money for a player who just doesn't seem up to scratch, he has ability but it looks like it will be nigh-impossible to get out of him. He's the king of hypothetical. 'What if Adama did this', 'What if Adama didn't do that and totally fuck up the chance and did that instead'. I didn't rate him the Championship and don't know. Costa, Cav (best of the three so far), and Jota all showed quality attributes in the Champ that made me think they could make the step up. They might have all struggled so far but I'm willing to give them more time as I still believe them to be quality players who can adapt to this level. I don't about Traore.

 

[Freddeno]

Good post, but sorry dont agree with that

 

[Premier Quality]

Traore is our record signing so there is more pressure - that’s kind of fair enough, there has to be expectation on any expensive transfer - no different to Helder or Jota.

Nuno wanted Traore - absolutely, we waited a while to get him. I don’t think we ever thought he was the finished article though - he has awesome raw attributes that need moulding into the way we play - and there have been clear improvements with his decision making in when to play it simple, when to turn and when to run. He’s a long way from finished though, there are still a lot of issues to iron out or reduce.

Costa, Cav and Jota get more credit due to their performances in the championship - actually, Traore had better stats than Costa or Cav last year, presumably he only gets that credit if it was for us?

His aQ, big chances, whichever stat you want to look at show he’s the most creative of our IF’s. that’s a low bar you might argue, but still accurate.

So, in answer to your summary - we’ve spent a lot of money on a player who was always going to be a work in progress, and has turned out to be a work in progress. He’s improving but not performing at an amazing level, possibly hindered by the other IF’s also not performing. He’s vastly ahead of Costa who has started 14 games compared to his 3 starts in all statistics.

There’s no guarantee he will turn into a world beater, he might stay at the ‘too good for the champ, not good enough for the prem, as might Costa, Jota and Cav - but it’s too early to know that. He deserves the same run of games Costa has had to see whether he can become really effective for us. Hopefully he’ll get it and come good.

 

[The Bear]

I think he needs very specific instructions and reigning in from just running at people every time he gets the ball. I'm sure the coaching staff are working on him.

 

[Keef]

Our record signing,a forward,who has scored half as many goals as Doherty who we think should be replaced because he's a definite weak link,tbh I think traore will be sold for a loss at the end of the season,probably to a championship team,or West Ham will overpay massively hopefully,I also think Jota and Costa will be off as well unless they get noticeably better

 

[Freddeno]

Our record signing,a forward,who has scored half as many goals as Doherty who we think should be replaced because he's a definite weak link,tbh I think traore will be sold for a loss at the end of the season,probably to a championship team,or West Ham will overpay massively hopefully,I also think Jota and Costa will be off as well unless they get noticeably better

How many minutes has the four players involved played?

 

[Keef]

Dunno,lots,more than our record signing

 

[Freddeno]

I meant including him..just for comparison

 

[Keef]

Again,dunno

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

He is always going to be on a lower minutes total because he is being used as a sub. And his style of play suggests he is more suited to that role at the moment. Maybe it will change over the season.

 

[White Wolf]

Costa, Cav and Jota get more credit due to their performances in the championship - actually, Traore had better stats than Costa or Cav last year, presumably he only gets that credit if it was for us?

This isn't completely true though, and to look at it just from this point of view can be deceptive. Traore was the focal point of all Boro's attacks first of all, whereas we had a front three rather than one individual who we looked towards for creating chances. Inevitably this should mean that Traore has better numbers than Cav or Costa. And yet this isn't right either. I'll paraphrase what I said at the time when it looked like we were signing him.

Traore got 5 goals, 10 assists. With about 150 more mins played, Cav got 9 assists, 12 goals. Significantly better. Costa played about 820 less minutes than Traore did, that's more than 9 games. He got 5 goals, 6 assists. If we look at a situation that is more similar, say, Helder in 2016/17 where Costa was the focal point (in a much weaker team than Pulis' Boro albeit) - 10 goals, 8 assists, and only about 170 more minutes.

So yeah - I don't really accept the premise that he was all that good in the Championship either. He was the primary creative outlet for the team that finished 5th and yet his stats pale in comparison to Cav and aren't much better than Costa's considering the minutes. Compare Costa in a similar situation as the main outlet and Costa did better despite being a worse team. He wasn't very good against us despite playing against 9 men and he was very poor in the play-offs pitched up against bloody Alan Hutton. Traore might have won Boro's POTY but so have Matt Doherty and Richard Stearman for us.

 

[Freddeno]

This isn't completely true though, and to look at it just from this point of view can be deceptive. Traore was the focal point of all Boro's attacks first of all, whereas we had a front three rather than one individual who we looked towards for creating chances. Inevitably this should mean that Traore has better numbers than Cav or Costa. And yet this isn't right either. I'll paraphrase what I said at the time when it looked like we were signing him.

Traore got 5 goals, 10 assists. With about 150 more mins played, Cav got 9 assists, 12 goals. Significantly better. Costa played about 820 less minutes than Traore did, that's more than 9 games. He got 5 goals, 6 assists. If we look at a situation that is more similar, say, Helder in 2016/17 where Costa was the focal point (in a much weaker team than Pulis' Boro albeit) - 10 goals, 8 assists, and only about 170 more minutes.

So yeah - I don't really accept the premise that he was all that good in the Championship either. He was the primary creative outlet for the team that finished 5th and yet his stats pale in comparison to Cav and aren't much better than Costa's considering the minutes. Compare Costa in a similar situation as the main outlet and Costa did better despite being a worse team. He wasn't very good against us despite playing against 9 men and he was very poor in the play-offs pitched up against bloody Alan Hutton. Traore might have won Boro's POTY but so have Matt Doherty and Richard Stearman for us.

What Traore got or not in those mins in that fucking awful Boro team compared to our team walking the league is not completely fair..put costa in that team and get more points then

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Costa was being compared when he was in our team under Zenga and Lambert Fred. When we were shit.