Traore the enigma

[Tredman]

Costa was great from about January onwards last season, one of our best players towards the latter stages of the season I thought.

he has played OK most of this season but without being effective. His crossing has been poor and he lacks confidence 1v1 lately. He is one of the most talented players I have ever seen in a Wolves shirt, such a lovely finisher too but we haven't seen that this season (for various reasons)

He was alright back end of the season, certainly on a par with Jota. Wouldn't say he was great tho, even then we looked more toothless up front (been an issue since Leo changed imo).

Agree that Costa is phenomenal, I'm lucky to sit in the lower BQ so get to see him and his feet up close - it's amazing to watch his ability to control and move the ball so quickly. He's just not doing it with an end result and personally I don't think he has been doing it consistently since his first season.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

He does seem to be holding back a touch. Just look at that run vs Liverpool, that goal vs Cardiff at home - we're not seeing enough of that.

There has been plenty of good stuff in 2018 though.

Jota is the key, we all know that. He should be knocking shit out of this league, far worse players than him are performing well for other teams (Dross Townsend scored today, for instance).

 

[Premier Quality]

Just for Langers I'll give you a cricket analogy. It's like having a Test match bowler who's constantly at 96mph and more. Wow. Hardly anyone in the world does that. Amazing!

And he'll put together the odd little spell that becomes the subject of YouTube lore, or even a single wicket taking delivery, smashing the stumps, that has your eyes popping. This guy is one in a million, surely.

Except the rest of the time he's going at five an over and we can't trust him to do anything at all. Oh, and he averages 0.1 with the bat and can't field.

Now, that would be true, if it weren’t for the fact his xA weren’t so far in front of our other IF’s. unless in this analogy, Jota and Cav get hit for 8, and Helder doesn’t take any wickets and gets hit for 12?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I don't think you understand xA any better than I do :icon_lol:

Adama has certainly not been serving up two yard tap ins that our other buffoons have somehow contrived to miss. So I need to know how those figures have been arrived at.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Just for Langers I'll give you a cricket analogy. It's like having a Test match bowler who's constantly at 96mph and more. Wow. Hardly anyone in the world does that. Amazing!

And he'll put together the odd little spell that becomes the subject of YouTube lore, or even a single wicket taking delivery, smashing the stumps, that has your eyes popping. This guy is one in a million, surely.

Except the rest of the time he's going at five an over and we can't trust him to do anything at all. Oh, and he averages 0.1 with the bat and can't field.

Ok, I will bite

Ladies and gents I give you Devon Malcolm. Carted around the park sometimes but 9 for 57 against South Africa makes it all worthwhile.

That's Traore

 

[Premier Quality]

I don't think you understand xA any better than I do :icon_lol:

Adama has certainly not been serving up two yard tap ins that our other buffoons have somehow contrived to miss. So I need to know how those figures have been arrived at.

You’re probably right! My understanding is opportunities created - the site you showed me had Jiminez’ header from Traore’s cross as 0.09 xG for Jiminez, and 0.09 xA for Traore, so I take it that it was felt he created a chance for Jiminez that he had a 9% chance of scoring.

I posted the stats from that site, I’ll find them and repost - but Traore was a long way ahead of the other IF’s.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You’re probably right! My understanding is opportunities created - the site you showed me had Jiminez’ header from Traore’s cross as 0.09 xG for Jiminez, and 0.09 xA for Traore, so I take it that it was felt he created a chance for Jiminez that he had a 9% chance of scoring.

I posted the stats from that site, I’ll find them and repost - but Traore was a long way ahead of the other IF’s.

xG I get. Because that's the chance and it either goes in or it doesn't. Whether I agree with the calculations or not and if there should be some nuance here or there...but I'll be here all night banging on about that.

xA seems a lot more murky to me.

Edit: Yeah, I know he was miles ahead, having watched every minute of every game I don't know why though.

 

[Premier Quality]

Found it

Mgw 0.38
Traore 0.35
Cav.0.23
Jiminez 0.22
Jota 0.17
Costa 0.06

Wow!

 

[WolfmanOz]

Just for Langers I'll give you a cricket analogy. It's like having a Test match bowler who's constantly at 96mph and more. Wow. Hardly anyone in the world does that. Amazing!

And he'll put together the odd little spell that becomes the subject of YouTube lore, or even a single wicket taking delivery, smashing the stumps, that has your eyes popping. This guy is one in a million, surely.

Except the rest of the time he's going at five an over and we can't trust him to do anything at all. Oh, and he averages 0.1 with the bat and can't field.

I then give you Shaun Tait as evidence supporting your analogy.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I then give you Shaun Tait as evidence supporting your analogy.

But would you rather have Tait and Mills in your squad or against you? Both have a specific close to unique quality as does Traore. My issue is to play to his strengths and use him as an impact sub.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But would you rather have Tait and Mills in your squad or against you? Both have a specific close to unique quality as does Traore. My issue is to play to his strengths and use him as an impact sub.

Against, as they were shite (as was Big Devon), as evidenced by them averaging comically high figures.

It'll come off once in a while but otherwise, thank you very much, free runs.

Back to the real subject, thank you very much free possession, time after time after time.

 

[big mean bunny]

Dribbling is counter productive if team mates can't rely on the outcome being vaguely consistent however. The break away from the corner yesterday he had one man to beat, and under little pressing completely just miss controlled the ball directly to the only defender. It was utterly strange to watch a top level footballer do that. I am enamoured by his pace at times, however that is it. I'd rather Jota start over him and still feel like it was an utter waste of a transfer currently. He is like an 18million Joe Mason to me. In the sense I don't know what he actually is.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

xG I get. Because that's the chance and it either goes in or it doesn't. Whether I agree with the calculations or not and if there should be some nuance here or there...but I'll be here all night banging on about that.

xA seems a lot more murky to me.

Edit: Yeah, I know he was miles ahead, having watched every minute of every game I don't know why though.

I imagine xA is just the xG figure applied to the person who plays the pass rather than the one taking the shot?

If xG is based on the position, nature of the ball, etc. then it seems straight forward enough to copy that logic across to xA as you've providing a team mate with a pass into the space or situation with the given xG. Though I find assist stats a lot more murky, tend to give almost anything that preceeds a goal as an assist these days whether that be a Jimenez style saved shot like last night or someone playing a relatively mundane pass to someone in a safe area before they beat a couple of opponents and bang in a worldy. You're probably missing a lot of xA stuff too if you're only counting stuff that results in an attempt on goal, could have countless passes/crosses into dangerous areas that are thwarted by fantastic defending or the player on the other end having a shit touch so they can't get a shot away, which presumably gives a big fat zero for xG and xA.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Against, as they were shite (as was Big Devon), as evidenced by them averaging comically high figures.

It'll come off once in a while but otherwise, thank you very much, free runs.

Back to the real subject, thank you very much free possession, time after time after time.

Tait is shit in tests.
Averages 23 in ODIs
21 in T20.

Horses for courses and Traore is the same

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Found it

Those numbers seem a bit odd.

Can't think of much else from MGW than when he put Costa clean through, against Arsenal?
I'd have thought the score for Jimenez would be higher, couple of good lay offs for actual assists which I would've assumed added up to greater than the total he's got there.
Jota I would've expected closer to MGW off the back of the chance he created for Jimenez against Palace, clean through centre of the goal must be a decent chance, but a good save from Hennessey denied him.

Costa feels about right, genuinely can't remember him creating a clear chance.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Whatever camp you sit in you have to agree that defenders shit themselves when Traore comes on.

We just haven't made the most of it. And so far probably nor has he

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I imagine xA is just the xG figure applied to the person who plays the pass rather than the one taking the shot?

If xG is based on the position, nature of the ball, etc. then it seems straight forward enough to copy that logic across to xA as you've providing a team mate with a pass into the space or situation with the given xG. Though I find assist stats a lot more murky, tend to give almost anything that preceeds a goal as an assist these days whether that be a Jimenez style saved shot like last night or someone playing a relatively mundane pass to someone in a safe area before they beat a couple of opponents and bang in a worldy. You're probably missing a lot of xA stuff too if you're only counting stuff that results in an attempt on goal, could have countless passes/crosses into dangerous areas that are thwarted by fantastic defending or the player on the other end having a shit touch so they can't get a shot away, which presumably gives a big fat zero for xG and xA.

Yeah, this is what I mean. Like Doc should have some kind of mark for squaring in Raul at West Ham. He doesn't though as he didn't even shoot.

Adama really hasn't created that much for us.

Tait is shit in tests.
Averages 23 in ODIs
21 in T20.

Horses for courses and Traore is the same

I don't want to labour this but I did say TEST bowler, I explicitly said that.

Two of them were shit and one of them never played Test cricket.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Whatever camp you sit in you have to agree that defenders shit themselves when Traore comes on.

We just haven't made the most of it. And so far probably nor has he

Don't think Bamba even broke a sweat in the first half last night, got tight on Traore and just outmuscled him or judged the flight on balls better than him.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, I don't think defenders at this level are that worried by him. He runs straight into them most of the time.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Yeah, this is what I mean. Like Doc should have some kind of mark for squaring in Raul at West Ham. He doesn't though as he didn't even shoot.

Adama really hasn't created that much for us.



I don't want to labour this but I did say TEST bowler, I explicitly said that.

Two of them were shit and one of them never played Test cricket.

Yeah but that's missing two of the three formats. If that means Traore can do something against two out if 3 teams that's 25 games as an impact sub he may do something. He does offer something for me. I get you don't think the same