Transfer Speculation Thread 2014/15

[Lycan]

I don't quite get all this freeing up wages thing. That doesn't particularly help us immediately as the club will have still had to pay him off in some respect, which is presumably the majority if not all of his contract. So presumably the club will have accounted for the wages somehow in terms of cashflow up until the summer?

Granted after the summer it looks better, even more so with Doyle's wages off the books, but until then, the club will still feel the impact.

We haven't paid anyone off. Johnson, O'Hara and Foley could've sat there until the end of their contracts and we would've had no other choice but to pay them what they were due. The contracts were cancelled by mutual consent, ripped up. We waited them out and they all got fed up of sitting in the reserves.

 

[Sniffer]

We haven't paid anyone off. Johnson, O'Hara and Foley could've sat there until the end of their contracts and we would've had no other choice but to pay them what they were due. The contracts were cancelled by mutual consent, ripped up. We waited them out and they all got fed up of sitting in the reserves.

We would have paid them all off in one way or another. They would have all still been here if we hadn't.

 

[Lycan]

We would have paid them all off in one way or another. They would have all still been here if we hadn't.

No, we would've kept them here, paid them and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to us. They took the option to cancel their contracts for the good of their career and forfeit the rest of what we owed them.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

No, we would've kept them here, paid them and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to us. They took the option to cancel their contracts for the good of their career and forfeit the rest of what we owed them.

Don't be so naive.

Foley and O'Hara may well have agreed to taking a bit less than they were owed as they had other clubs lined up to pay the difference but Johnson has gone to nothing, why would he walk away for free into unemployment? Another 6 months in the wilderness isn't really going to make a difference for him at this point so he may as well have sat tight and got the cash.

None of them will have walked for free.

 

[Lycan]

Don't be so naive.

Foley and O'Hara may well have agreed to taking a bit less than they were owed as they had other clubs lined up to pay the difference but Johnson has gone to nothing, why would he walk away for free into unemployment? Another 6 months in the wilderness isn't really going to make a difference for him at this point so he may as well have sat tight and got the cash.

None of them will have walked for free.

And you know for a fact that Johnson is walking away into nothing? His contract was cancelled last night. If we were going to pay them off we would've done it ages ago. JOH even said when his contract was cancelled that he made the decision to help him get a club because the public perception of him sitting in our reserves leeching off us was harming his reputation and his chance to find a fresh start. The players themselves made the decision to take up our offer to cancel the contracts, it will have been a calculated risk by them to take a hit financially and get back into football.

 

[broughtonwolf]

Don't be so naive.

Foley and O'Hara may well have agreed to taking a bit less than they were owed as they had other clubs lined up to pay the difference but Johnson has gone to nothing, why would he walk away for free into unemployment? Another 6 months in the wilderness isn't really going to make a difference for him at this point so he may as well have sat tight and got the cash.

None of them will have walked for free.

That would be my take as well. My guess is that the club has waited to see what would transpire in the final transfer window of the contract with an offer already made to Johnson in the event that nothing did happen. Again, guesswork would suggest Johnson gets a sum that equates to the majority but not all of the outstanding contract and the club has budgeted for this somehow.

I think the Foley situation was probably a lot easier all round.

 

[broughtonwolf]

And you know for a fact that Johnson is walking away into nothing? His contract was cancelled last night. If we were going to pay them off we would've done it ages ago. JOH even said when his contract was cancelled that he made the decision to help him get a club because the public perception of him sitting in our reserves leeching off us was harming his reputation and his chance to find a fresh start. The players themselves made the decision to take up our offer to cancel the contracts, it will have been a calculated risk by them to take a hit financially and get back into football.

You could well be right, but I can't believe the "offer" to cancel the contract didn't involve some element of compromise from both parties.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I don't quite get all this freeing up wages thing. That doesn't particularly help us immediately as the club will have still had to pay him off in some respect, which is presumably the majority if not all of his contract. So presumably the club will have accounted for the wages somehow in terms of cashflow up until the summer?

Granted after the summer it looks better, even more so with Doyle's wages off the books, but until then, the club will still feel the impact.

Simple. We took the hit on the entire value of Doyle's, O'Hara's, Foley's and Johnson's contracts last year in the accounts. Before FFP kicked in, hence why we took a massive book loss up front. This isn't about the set amount of cash involved in having those players on the books and the wages of someone else being unaffordable. It is about how it is treated through the books for FFP. We will have cleared a lot of wiggle room, although the amount paid to Johnson will probably only be marginally smaller than if he had sat until the Summer.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

And you know for a fact that Johnson is walking away into nothing? His contract was cancelled last night. If we were going to pay them off we would've done it ages ago. JOH even said when his contract was cancelled that he made the decision to help him get a club because the public perception of him sitting in our reserves leeching off us was harming his reputation and his chance to find a fresh start. The players themselves made the decision to take up our offer to cancel the contracts, it will have been a calculated risk by them to take a hit financially and get back into football.

Well lets see where he ends up then.

Why would we pay them off 'ages ago'? They were kept on the books as they were still an asset no matter how little they were wanted at the club or how tarnished their reputation become as a result. Wolves had to pay them anyway so they may as well have kept them around in the hope that someone came in and offered money for them, they got their way to an extent with Henry and Ward both being sold, Doyle and Johnson both spending time out on loan so Wolves have already saved themselves some cash there.

You really think O'Hara walked out of Wolves without a penny for tearing up his contract? Considering he'd only recently bought a new house, moving to a much lower paying club and is in the midst of what could become a very expensive divorce?

They've all been paid off to some degree.

 

[Lycan]

Well lets see where he ends up then.

Why would we pay them off 'ages ago'? They were kept on the books as they were still an asset no matter how little they were wanted at the club or how tarnished their reputation become as a result. Wolves had to pay them anyway so they may as well have kept them around in the hope that someone came in and offered money for them, they got their way to an extent with Henry and Ward both being sold, Doyle and Johnson both spending time out on loan so Wolves have already saved themselves some cash there.

You really think O'Hara walked out of Wolves without a penny for tearing up his contract? Considering he'd only recently bought a new house, moving to a much lower paying club and is in the midst of what could become a very expensive divorce?

They've all been paid off to some degree.

Why the hell would we have given Kevin Foley a single penny? FCK didn't buy out his contract from us, it was cancelled so he could move without a fee. Why would we pay for him to move away?

We might not have let Johnson and O'Hara go for nothing but we certainly wouldn't have paid them up completely. This will have been an offer from Wolves that's been on the table for a long time. Not from the instance that they were placed on the transfer list but as soon as it became clear that we weren't going to get any sort of transfer fee for them. This will have been the players decision and will have cost them IMO.

Henry and Ward don't factor into this at all. They were placed on the transfer list and sold straight away, completely routine transfers.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Why the hell would we have given Kevin Foley a single penny? FCK didn't buy out his contract from us, it was cancelled so he could move without a fee. Why would we pay for him to move away?

We might not have let Johnson and O'Hara go for nothing but we certainly wouldn't have paid them up completely. This will have been an offer from Wolves that's been on the table for a long time. Not from the instance that they were placed on the transfer list but as soon as it became clear that we weren't going to get any sort of transfer fee for them. This will have been the players decision and will have cost them IMO.

Henry and Ward don't factor into this at all. They were placed on the transfer list and sold straight away, completely routine transfers.

We'd have potentially given Foley money so he moved, he might not have been willing to go to Copenhagen for the money they offered so Wolves would perhaps have been willing to give him 20, 30, 40 who knows what percentage of what he was owed to lessen the blow of his wage drop going to Copenhagen, makes sense to given him a chunk of what he's owed to get rid rather than keep him around and pay all of it, does it not?

I never said he'd have paid Johnson and O'Hara in full, i just argued against your notion that they'd walked out empty handed, i certainly expect it to have cost the players too. Who knows how long any particular offer has been on the table for anyone, I don't think it would've been as soon as you think though as there was a lot of talk from the club early in Jackett's reign that no contracts would be cancelled, it took over 12 months before that changed didn't it?

Henry and Ward were in the same group of players as those who have recently been released, Ward spent a year on loan before leaving too remember, they were all free to a good home with Wolves originally determined not to cancel any contracts, it paid off completely in respect of Henry, straight out the door on a permanent deal, Ward worked pretty well with a full season loan and then permanent deal. No doubt the board had planned or at least hoped for similar deals for the others but Doyle and Johnson have both struggled to turn their loans into permanent deals so it seems both parties are happy to call it a day, in Johnson's case anyway, just as O'Hara did but i don't think any of the 'bomb squad' would've had this opportunity to talk some money and run 18 months ago when Jackett first arrived.

 

[YoungWolf]

Yeah, there's no way they have just agreed to cancel their contracts without being paid to do so. It won't cover their full wages for the rest of their contract but it will have been till quite a bit of money I would imagine.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Yep. HOWEVER, from an accounting point of view, any difference between the final amount paid to these players and the absolute full value of the contracts that was written off last year will actually show as a book profit in this year's accounts. Say we owed O'Hara £3m and he took say £1.5m. The full £3m was written off as part of the £33m special item loss in last year, so the £1.5m we have not had to give to him actually shows as £1.5m added to club income on the balance sheet this time. That counts when working out profit or losses for FFP. Hence it frees up extra wiggle room.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Yep. HOWEVER, from an accounting point of view, any difference between the final amount paid to these players and the absolute full value of the contracts that was written off last year will actually show as a book profit in this year's accounts. Say we owed O'Hara £3m and he took say £1.5m. The full £3m was written off as part of the £33m special item loss in last year, so the £1.5m we have not had to give to him actually shows as £1.5m added to club income on the balance sheet this time. That counts when working out profit or losses for FFP. Hence it frees up extra wiggle room.

Which is probably the reason they didn't release the headline figures in December as we've probably made a profit this year.

 

[YoungWolf]

Yep. HOWEVER, from an accounting point of view, any difference between the final amount paid to these players and the absolute full value of the contracts that was written off last year will actually show as a book profit in this year's accounts. Say we owed O'Hara £3m and he took say £1.5m. The full £3m was written off as part of the £33m special item loss in last year, so the £1.5m we have not had to give to him actually shows as £1.5m added to club income on the balance sheet this time. That counts when working out profit or losses for FFP. Hence it frees up extra wiggle room.

Yeah get that, obviously we'd have paid more to them if they sat on their contracts, it's jut paying that money up front which collectively might have cost a fair bit, would it have impacted on how much we could spend this month? Best for all parties regardless. Johnson is now signing for Charlton. Wonder if anyone is interested in Doyle or if KJ will want to keep him around the squad

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

We had the funds available and ready to pay them up front. We had the accounting mechanisms in place to make sure it wouldn't screw us in terms of FFP to do so.

 

[Lycan]

Johnson will look ok at Charlton. They play a deep defensive line, should be similar to what he was used to at Blues.

 

[Law's Bus]

I'm sure I read somewhere that to move outside the transfer window as a free agent, you had to have been a free agent when the window closed? Johnson becoming a free agent last night seems to have simply been a potential way for him around the window rules just in case. Doyle, for example, now cannot move permanently until the summer, so there clearly was zero interest in him from anywhere.

 

[Lord Knows]

We had the funds available and ready to pay them up front. We had the accounting mechanisms in place to make sure it wouldn't screw us in terms of FFP to do so.

Did the club confirm that the £33m special item loss was in fact these players contracts?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Depreciating their value as an asset and the entire value of their contracts? Yup, they certainly did.