The Red Card Effect

[PuntsWolf]

Totally disagree. Just look at the Orlando v. New York City match last Sunday/Saturday/whenever it was. An early card was handed out for diving and that did nothing to stop the issue. Neither did the second card issued for diving. Or the third. All against the same team!

It wasn't the fact he hadn't punished diving, it was the fact that he was blowing up for everything. Hazard feels that if he is breathed on, he has a right to go down. When the ref then confirms his belief by giving him fouls for it he has built a rod for his own back.

He ends up with a situation where a player (Veratti) has made 6 or 7 fouls but the ref doesn't book him as he knows he hasn't really done much wrong. Then he has more pressure from Chelsea players and they are all asking why he hasn't been booked (another thing he could have dealt with). So then it just descends into him losing complete control of the game and players falling all over the place demanding yellow cards and he's in an awkward situation.

 

[Haggstone]

I think you're missing my point Johnny, which I could have made clearer in my OP. I'm not suggesting that ALL players would make capable referees,. I'm simply suggesting that many referees seem to lack the in game know how that someone who has spent 15 years playing the game at a high level would more likely possess. Sure, maybe only 1 in 10 players would have the other skills (leadership, composure etc) necessary to enable them to become a good referee, but the fact remains ex players aren't exactly falling over themselves to enter the profession, they would rather succeed/fail at coaching and management instead. Can't say I blame them either really.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Make diving a sending off offence, with a panel of experts, 2 former players and 2 ex referees to review all Premier League games on a Tuesday morning. (Not enough cameras lower down). They can ratify those given and also review those that weren't. Then an automatic 3 game ban for those that are found to dive. It would cut it down significantly within a month in my view.

However there is this grey area which has appeared in the last dozen years where you hear pundits say "he is entitled to go down for that", by definition that is a dive as they are saying normal contact wouldn't have brought him down, but because they have been touched hitting the deck is seen as acceptable. There would need to be clarity on whether this is to be tolerated or not. At the moment players are lambasted for not going down in such circumstances, Shearer and Gullit, both got stuck into Sam Vokes on MOTD last week for not going down when his shirt was tugged and ridiculed him when he said "I'm not that type of player".

My final point is we aren't whiter than white, Dicko has been booked twice this year for trying to con a penalty in the box.

Yep this is the big problem, and that's what makes it hard. Players think any sort of physical contact is a foul. See Di Maria on Monday, he was incensed that he had got booked for diving. But you can start off by punishing the blatant ones like Januzaj, and then hope that it serves as a deterrent to make players think twice.

Unfortunately it will take a while. It's ingrained in these players mentalities, they've been doing it for a long time. Yes some will be wrong, but hopefully the fear of suspension will help eliminate it.

 

[oldleemillgold]

However we get there though, the end result we all want to see is an end to diving and pathetic fakery like we saw on Saturday. As with any crime, it's the certainty of being caught which is the greatest deterrent and video footage, post-match, is the way to get there. If the ref spots it during the game then fine, send the b*&£*%d off. If not, and hey, none of us is infallible, video review and a long ban should encourage players to behave in a manner more becoming for the role models they are.

 

[Tredman]

The citation system works very well in rugby - do anything naughty (either noticed and not adequately punished at the time or missed) and you will be pulled up by a board after and usually very heavily banned.

Its not that rugby players are nicer or more respectful in general, they just know if you mess up you will be very badly punished - it works and football should do the same and stop hiding behind the argument that refs are always right and competent.

 

[ROVERT47]

Sorry but I cannot accept that. Any official at level five or higher is expected to give decisions within his patrol path. Like wise any assistant that used abusive language to the referee would soon find himself in hot water.

The arrogance of the 'man in the middle' has to be taken into considreration, referees are humans, some are good, some are twats.

 

[Langers]

What annoyed me was the utter bollocks of the 'respect' campaign. There simply isn't enough respect shown on the pitch and it works both ways.

Players should never be encroaching the ref, grabbing their cards before the brandish them (as Ivanovic did recently), swearing at officials, and that's before we even talk about simulation.

Similarly, it boils my piss when I see referees using players' names. That's putting players on a higher pedestal than other players on the same pitch and it's simply not right. It doesn't matter if it's John Terry or Keith Lowe - shirt colour and number should be the ONLY way players are addressed. Only the captain of each side should be speaking to the ref. The systems that are in place in terms of appeals, rescinding cards etc is an absolute farce and I don't think 'but it can't be changed' is a useful argument. Because it bloody well should be changed - to not do so is again a lack of respect for the players who may have been cheated by other players' actions.

I don't think anyone wants to see games dominated by cards being brandished right, left and centre but if it takes a few weeks of that to get the message across that cheating, disrespecting the ref, swearing at officials isn't acceptable, than ultimately the game will be better for it. There is not enough of a deterrent to stop players from cheating, with the prestige at stake for winning games.

There are far too many examples of football losing the sporting respect it should have for opponents, officials, supporters etc. A lot of things need to be changed.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

But why would anyone want to cheat in order to win? Maybe I am being naive here, but surely the only way to win is to win fairly. /QUOTE]

Cop onto yourself Frank!
People cheat so they might get away with it, gain an unfair advantage over their opposition and win. That's why it's called cheating!!

Are you being naive? Yes! You sure are! Can't believe you asked that question!

 

[Walnut]

Better than what they do now. Annoying how many times the Assistant waits until the ref indicates which way a throw in is before putting his flag up, despite them standing right by where the ball went out.

My Son was a class 1 referee and he would tell his assistants that if they saw an incident that he hadn't seen then flag.
He would then talk to the assistant and make his decision.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

What is incorrect with this comment? Players are making the referees job harder. Fuck knows why some on here go for Franks throat in an aggressive manner.

There is only one who has a go at me. He just cannot help himself, and he is nearly always wrong.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Better than what they do now. Annoying how many times the Assistant waits until the ref indicates which way a throw in is before putting his flag up, despite them standing right by where the ball went out.

In the pre match team talk, referees will divide the line into three parts. Anything in the assistants half and he should lead with the flag. Anything in the referees half then he should indicate which way the throw is going, and the assistant should then follow with the flag. The grey area either side of the half way is where both referee and assistant may know which the throw should go, but they use eye to eye contact, and usually the referee will point in the direction of the throw, and the assistant will follow with his flag.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Frankly, yes that is EXACTLY what they should do. It will take balls of steel to do it though, and from that point of view I understand the issue for referees.

Most people think that there are often too many yellow cards in a game, and while it would be nice if the use of cards decreased, I do think that referees need to be much stricter on the play acting that goes on. Though that does alter the simple fact that if players did not cheat then the problem would not exist.

 

[Kenny]

Most people think that there are often too many yellow cards in a game, and while it would be nice if the use of cards decreased, I do think that referees need to be much stricter on the play acting that goes on. Though that does alter the simple fact that if players did not cheat then the problem would not exist.

Chicken and Egg stuff isn't it.

Players/Clubs will push the boundries of the laws of the game to gain the slightest advantage in their quest to win games and titles. Unfortunately it is up to the authorities to get in under control. In an ideal world they wouldn't need to but we don't live in that world. We live in a world where a player is one mistake away from being dropped or a manager is one defeat away from being sacked.

In my view on the cheating, half the time it is impossible for a ref to call it right, at the time with just one view of the incident. SO it either has to become a video ref or dealt with after the game by the FA, that allows the ref to easily say "well I thought he was caught but I got that one wrong" without the threat of being punished for it.

 

[Del Woppio]

There is only one who has a go at me. He just cannot help himself, and he is nearly always wrong.

I haven't seen anybody 'have a go at you'. I've seen lots of people debate the points in hand, though.

 

[Parkins left foot]

The FA did start the process by saying that only the Captain was allowed to approach the Ref & question a decision, but never followed it through. The Respect campaign was worthless if its only a paper policy sitting in a draw.

The situation has gone to the point now that only extreme action might reverse it. At the start of next season (if its tried part way through there will be legal challenges from clubs who feel that they have been disadvantaged) all clubs must be told that this rule will be enforced & infringement will be an immediate yellow. This has to be followed through in all games even if it means game abandonments as so many players are ultimately dismissed.

No doubt clubs would not believe it would happen as previous rulings have not been followed through, but the message would get through ultimately. Might give Refs some 'thinking time' before they reach into the back pocket after an incident.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

Chicken and Egg stuff isn't it.

Players/Clubs will push the boundries of the laws of the game to gain the slightest advantage in their quest to win games and titles. Unfortunately it is up to the authorities to get in under control. In an ideal world they wouldn't need to but we don't live in that world. We live in a world where a player is one mistake away from being dropped or a manager is one defeat away from being sacked.

In my view on the cheating, half the time it is impossible for a ref to call it right, at the time with just one view of the incident. SO it either has to become a video ref or dealt with after the game by the FA, that allows the ref to easily say "well I thought he was caught but I got that one wrong" without the threat of being punished for it.

Agreed Kenny, but I've posted several times my solution which I think would fix those very examples you've posted.
The manager being punitively punished (banned from the ground next 3 matchdays) he'd soon stop the diving, and Instant reply with a 5th official (or TV Judge, whatever) telling the ref, good/let it go/yellow card for blue 6/ quick bollocking for white 2, etc to help the ref when it kicks off.

 

[machin05]

Well, any change is not going to come from the managers - http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/watfordfc/watfordfcnews/11853032._/?

 

[Alan]

I do not know if you have had the opportunity to see a different angle but I believe my players and I must respect their decision.

Says it all for me. If he were impartial then it reads to me like he wouldn't be defending Forestieri. As it is he's obviously not impartial and I think ultimately this is a bit of man management from him.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

Says it all for me. If he were impartial then it reads to me like he wouldn't be defending Forestieri. As it is he's obviously not impartial and I think ultimately this is a bit of Spineless, disengenuous man management from him.

Fixed it for you Alan.

 

[Alan]

Hardly. Part of the job is defending your players. I don't have a problem with his comments.