The Red Card Effect

[Tony Towner]

There was a situation this year at Molinuex where the ref gave a penalty, but the linesman flagged and called it a dive from Dicko, which the ref went with. From what you are saying Frank does this mean that most refs would not appreciate this intervention once he has already given a decision?

 

[FrankMunro-371]

There was a situation this year at Molinuex where the ref gave a penalty, but the linesman flagged and called it a dive from Dicko, which the ref went with. From what you are saying Frank does this mean that most refs would not appreciate this intervention once he has already given a decision?

The referee would not want the assistant to intervene if his position was not as good as the referees. Referees only really want the assistants to give penalties for either the blind side handball, a tug of the shirt or any foul where he the assistant was better placed to see the incident. In the game at Molineux can you recall who would have been best positioned to judge whether or not it was a penalty?

 

[Kenny]

In the game at Molineux can you recall who would have been best positioned to judge whether or not it was a penalty?

From a positional point of view, the Assistant as he was closer. However he got the call wrong IMO but it was one of those hard to call ones, that from different angles you would get different opinions.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

From a positional point of view, the Assistant as he was closer. However he got the call wrong IMO but it was one of those hard to call ones, that from different angles you would get different opinions.

So it was possibly the assistants call. And you are absolutely right about angles. And whenever a referee gives a big decision my first reaction is to look at his angle. And then that of his assistant.

 

[Tony Towner]

The point I was making though is the ref had already given the call and pointed to the spot. The Asst then called him over (with a lot of encouragement from the Brighton players) and told him he'd got it wrong. If I'm correct from what you are saying is that most refs wouldn't appreciate that and would see it as undermining.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

The point I was making though is the ref had already given the call and pointed to the spot. The Asst then called him over (with a lot of encouragement from the Brighton players) and told him he'd got it wrong. If I'm correct from what you are saying is that most refs wouldn't appreciate that and would see it as undermining.

Yes I think they would. The referee gave a penalty then was persuaded to change his mind. Though Kenny said the assistant was in a better position, so maybe he was correct to bring it to the referees attention.

Once the referee changed his mind, did he then caution the Wolves player for simulation?

 

[Tony Towner]

He did, yes

 

[FrankMunro-371]

He did, yes

Thanks Tony. So it would appear the assistant did his job correctly on the day.

 

[Tony Towner]

As Kenny says it could have gone either way. I thought it was a dive others didn't.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Dive for me, certainly made a meal of it. I dont think those incidents deserve penalties, don't know why keepers continue to commit in those situations, so they've only got themselves to blame.

 

[Aikiwolf]

In any game a referee will only run in short bursts. The 12 minute run is just to show that the referee has the stamina required. And there are shuttle runs and sprints included in the fitness test. I have taken the physical training exam on many occasions, and it is quite tough. Though any fit person should have no trouble in passing it.

But my point is that 12 mins of continuous running does not prove any base level of fitness - or at least not a strong enough base for 90 mins of near continuous movement with a short break.

I appreciate the majority of refereeing requires sprinting, but a 12 min steady state run does not, IMO, provide any evidence that a referee is fit enough to referee a match!

 

[machin05]

Interesting conversation on MOTD2 tonight. Basically saying that because Southampton players DIDN'T crowd the referee, he refrained from giving Matic a second yellow.

Worrying, if true. And it was hard to argue with what was being said when watching the footage back. The ref went to his pocket after giving the foul, then decided against it.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yep, as I said on the other thread, on this occasion there cannot be a smokescreen thrown up of "the player(s) cheated which is unacceptable, if that didn't happen the ref wouldn't make the mistake" or "look at the players putting the ref under pressure, that needs to be sorted out rather than looking at his mistake". It was the referee's error, 100%, and pretty much down to a lack of bottle. It is THAT which is indicative of current refereeing standards, constant errors and another one there that's probably impacted on the result of a game. I don't have time for people sticking their heads in the sand and pretending there isn't a problem with officials, there obviously is. The issue of player behaviour is separate and of course requires attention but there is no way anyone can pretend that referees aren't making far too many big and obvious errors, because they are.

On the other hand the ref in the Everton vs Newcastle game got Coloccini's red card spot on.

 

[machin05]

That kind of weak officiating will actively discourage honesty for any players seeing that. Plus, you then see Darron Gibson waving the imaginary card in the face of the ref before he sends off Coloccini.

 

[Hereford Wolf]

That kind of weak officiating will actively discourage honesty for any players seeing that. Plus, you then see Darron Gibson waving the imaginary card in the face of the ref before he sends off Coloccini.

Waving an imaginary card should be an automatic three match ban. That would stop it.

 

[YoungWolf]

Much like diving though, isn't it. It's just having the balls to do it and recognising you might wrongly send someone off

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Is waving an imaginary card any worse than verbally asking for a card? The former seems to attract much more rage, then I suppose you're not really picking up on what's being said but the imaginary card is easily noticed.

 

[lemonjelly]

I suppose it is arguably incitement? The crowd can see you waving the card, but are unlikely to hear you ask if it should/shouldn't be a red?

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Any player waving an imaginary card should be cautioned.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Any player waving an imaginary card should be cautioned.

Does the same apply for someone verbally asking for an opponent to be shown a card?