The Football News Thread 2014/15 - Everything not Wolves News Related

[Johnny75]

Because there is a distinct lack of BME coaches and 'positive action' is required.

But there isn't is there? The data bears that out. Currently 30% of top level qualified BME coaches are employed at the top level. That is not the same for other sections of society.

Nobody should be guarenteed an interview, it should be on merit and as DW has said football doesn't work that way.

 

[Johnny75]

BMEs? Obviously?

Got some proof of that?

 

[Johnny75]

If they're qualified, they should be interviewed. But the feeling among BME players and coaches seems to be (again, qualitatively) that they won't get hired and in some cases won't even get interviewed. These feelings usually don't come from nowhere.

If you have any statistics on that specifically, I'd love to see them.

As it's your assertion I suggest you need the data to back your argument, as it's only right you have your own data in a debate, don't you think?

 

[YoungWolf]

But there isn't is there? The data bears that out. Currently 30% of top level qualified BME coaches are employed at the top level. That is not the same for other sections of society.

Nobody should be guarenteed an interview, it should be on merit and as DW has said football doesn't work that way.

But aren't there only 13 (is that right) Pro License BME coaches? And that is in anyway an acceptable number?

 

[Alan]

As it's your assertion I suggest you need the data to back your argument, as it's only right you have your own data in a debate, don't you think?

I have the qualitative data, as mentioned. Doubtful any quantitative research on the matter has been done.

Why should black players feel that getting their badges is a "waste of time" if football is a meritocracy? As I say, the idea comes from somewhere.

 

[Johnny75]

But aren't there only 13 (is that right) Pro License BME coaches? And that is in anyway an acceptable number?

Absolutely not an acceptable number and I go back to my original assertion, which to be fair to the EPL and FA is being acted on, that rather than moaning spuriously about BME coaches not being given a chance Barnes, Ince and Campbell's time would be better served by increasing coaching participation. It's not like the opportunities aren't there is it?

 

[Johnny75]

I have the qualitative data, as mentioned. Doubtful any quantitative research on the matter has been done.

Why should black players feel that getting their badges is a "waste of time" if football is a meritocracy? As I say, the idea comes from somewhere.

I refer you to Sol Campbell, John Barnes and Paul Ince arguments.

Chris's Powell, Hughton and Coleman seem to be the antithesis to that argument.

 

[Alan]

As so often, three exceptions does not a trend buck.

 

[Johnny75]

What trend would this be?

The trend of shit managers moaning about something or managers you don't hear from consistently gaining employment?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

As I alluded to earlier, I think the likes of Campbell/Ince believe their sheer stature means they should be granted a head start and them planted into a high profile job straight away. But when you look at the current British coaches in the Premier League:

Rodgers: Spent years in youth coaching at Chelsea before moving into management
Monk: Admittedly, parachuted straight in, they obviously have a very clear idea of what remit their manager has to fill though and he does it
Allardyce: At least a decade in the lower leagues before he got a go in the top flight, under his own steam
Hughes: Very high profile player, got a lucky break in getting the Wales job when there were few alternatives, allowed him to build a reputation under different circumstances
Pardew: Years in the lower leagues before he got West Ham up - had to do further yards down the leagues before he got another go
Carver: Shite caretaker, irrelevance
Pulis: Absolute journeyman for 15+ years before he got Stoke up
Bruce: Spent years bouncing around second tier jobs before he got Blues up
Sherwood: 6 years or so youth coaching at Spurs before he got a go
Dyche: Just Championship stuff then took Burnley up
Ramsey: No real track record to speak of and he gets a Premier League job! Would never happen to a black....oh.
Pearson: Years and years of Championship and lower stuff.

There is no gold card, you have to go and earn it.

 

[YoungWolf]

As has been said really, it's not so much overt discrimination where it's a case of, 'we don't give jobs to black people' but I find it frustrating when people act as if there isn't an issue.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If they want opportunities then they have to do what everyone else does. Just taking badges isn't enough (although it's infinitely preferable to not doing them and pissing and moaning about lack of chances). You often have to start at the bottom, go and coach someone's U18s to start with if there isn't anything else around. It's not glamorous stuff but it is where a lot of people have to get it all going. If you're good enough you will progress.

Yeah, from time to time someone gets a management job when they don't really merit it or there are alternative candidates with better credentials, experience, qualifications or whatever. That's life, it isn't fair all the time, deal with it.

 

[YoungWolf]

I wouldn't say that is the point. I would argue it is about why people from black and ethnic minorities are put off going into coaching - particularly the players, who wit should be easier for.

 

[Alan]

I wouldn't say that is the point. I would argue it is about why people from black and ethnic minorities are put off going into coaching - particularly the players, who wit should be easier for.

Ultimately this is the crux of it.

It's like the gender wage gap in America. Women on average make $0.78 to every dollar a man makes. Hearing that makes it sound as if there is major discrimination happening in offices all over America, but it's not that simple. Intra-positional gender wage disparities don't exist. Women are, however, funneled into work that tends to pay less than the opportunities given to men. This is where the gap comes from.

It's similar here. Outright discrimination doesn't occur like many people imagine. It's more about where they feel like they can go. It's all very subtle.

 

[Del Woppio]

"I don't think I'll get a job because I'm black, so I won't bother doing my qualifications"?

Tbh that doesn't sound like a football issue. It sounds like a paranoia issue. I accept the game could do more to encourage bme candidates into coaching school, but by the same token people have actually got to give it a go.

 

[Sniffer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32138946

£173m in the red and rising.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

Barnes - I cant get a job cos I is Black innit.

No you fucking idiot it's cos you is SHIT
You have had 3 jobs which blows your cant get a second job out the water and in each job you were shit

 

[Langers]

Cool quiz - http://www.theguardian.com/football...adiums-then-and-now-interactive-quiz-part-two

10/10 for me, though I admit that one of them was a total guess!

 

[ROVERT47]

Greg's got a fight on his hands.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32159749

 

[Kenny]

Leeds suspend their Assistant Manager/Coach Steve Thompson

A Leeds statement said: “The director of football, Nicola Salerno, has today (April 2) suspended the assistant coach Steve Thompson from his duties at the club. This is an internal matter and the club will make no further comment on this internal issue.”