The Football News Thread 2014/15 - Everything not Wolves News Related

[Alan]

Huh. I don't know where I got the idea that he was black.

 

[Del Woppio]

I wonder if, for sol and Ince specifically as they're the biggest race card wavers, it's actually a struggle for them to acknowledge that they're just shit managers/coaches? Both were wonderful players, and amongst the best in the world at their prime - maybe they just don't 'get' being shit at something, and so apportion their failure to get work to the obvious thing that they can't control - their skin colour.

 

[Freddeno]

Never rated ince as a manager, horrible record

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I think in Campbell's case he feels that starting anywhere below the very top is beneath him, hence why he thinks he could take Gary Neville's job or he could become Mayor of London tomorrow. Sol lives in Sol's world, bless him. The man isn't right.

The thing is - and as much of a cunt as I think he is on a personal level - Ince started off with the right idea. Started off as low as it was possible to go with Macclesfield, kept them up, then did a decent job with MK. He's reverted to being an unrelenting bellend ever since though and his results have completely tailed off. He's a lazy bastard at heart, I think he believes players should be inspired by the pure presence of Paul Ince among them. How can you be a manager and only do three days a week FFS?

Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink was one of the top strikers in Europe for a while and it seems he's had little problem with getting his hands dirty.

 

[Kenny]

Never rated ince as a manager, horrible record

Ince did ok in his first few jobs down in League 2. The jump to Blackburn in the Prem was the end for him though

 

[Alan]

I wonder if, for sol and Ince specifically as they're the biggest race card wavers, it's actually a struggle for them to acknowledge that they're just $#@! managers/coaches? Both were wonderful players, and amongst the best in the world at their prime - maybe they just don't 'get' being $#@! at something, and so apportion their failure to get work to the obvious thing that they can't control - their skin colour.

Possibly. Pretty clear given the ratios that blacks are underrepresented in coaching, and skin color almost certainly plays a role in that. But in Campbell and Ince's cases? Probably not. They've pretty obviously been given their chances and just failed.

If you're not qualified you're not qualified, and Ince at least has shown that he is especially not qualified.

 

[Freddeno]

Yeah league 2 was his level i guess

 

[Johnny75]

Pretty clear given the ratios that blacks are underrepresented in coaching, and skin color almost certainly plays a role in that.

Are you saying BME people are disadvantaged in coaching because of their skin colour? Taking this notion to its base are you suggesting that the people who run coaching courses are not letting ethnic people take courses based on skin colour?

The figures of qualified coaches to those in proffesional employment marry together the same as any other section of society.

 

[Alan]

Are you saying BME people are disadvantaged in coaching because of their skin colour? Taking this notion to its base are you suggesting that the people who run coaching courses are not letting ethnic people take courses based on skin colour?

Yes and no. These days it's not as simple as "I hate black people blah blah blah". You simply can't get away with it.

 

[Johnny75]

Yes and no. These days it's not as simple as "I hate black people blah blah blah". You simply can't get away with it.

So how do these coach educators who are monitored constantly in almost every aspect of running coaching courses 'get away with it'?

It is also worth noting that players at clubs can fast track through their coaching badges until the get to the UEFA B (Level 3) license. This should give more BME's chance to take their badges (25% of players are BME) are they being discriminated against?

Or could it be that BME participation on coaching courses is low for other reasons other than opportunity and cost?

 

[Alan]

So how do these coach educators who are monitored constantly in almost every aspect of running coaching courses 'get away with it'?

It is also worth noting that players at clubs can fast track through their coaching badges until the get to the UEFA B (Level 3) license. This should give more BME's chance to take their badges (25% of players are BME) are they being discriminated against?

Or could it be that BME participation on coaching courses is low for other reasons other than opportunity and cost?

I only have theories off the top of my head (no time at the present to dig through literature) but the final statistics speak for themselves, wouldn't you say? BME individuals are underrepresented in just about every industry in the UK. And as the positions increase in clout and authority (ie, football managers), the BMEs become even scarcer. So wider cultural issues are at play here.

 

[The Bear]

From what I've heard, Hasselbaink has turned his attitude around compared to his days as a coach at Forest. No longer giving it the big I Am, just putting the work in and the players get on with him really well now apparently. Maybe how he was perceived at Forest opened his eyes a bit.

 

[Johnny75]

The data doesn't back you up Alan. Look at the % qualified coaches that are BME and % employed, they are the same.

Is this just a theory of yours?

 

[Alan]

The data doesn't back you up Alan. Look at the % qualified coaches that are BME and % employed, they are the same.

Is this just a theory of yours?

Where are you getting that data? Because what I'm seeing doesn't say that at all.

 

[YoungWolf]

But then the question is, why aren't those players making the step from playing to coaching? And why aren't more people from black and ethnic minorities going into coaching?

 

[Johnny75]

But then the question is, why aren't those players making the step from playing to coaching? And why aren't more people from black and ethnic minorities going into coaching?

Now that's the question that Barnes et al should be focused on, not the race card they keep playing.

 

[Alan]

But then the question is, why aren't those players making the step from playing to coaching? And why aren't more people from black and ethnic minorities going into coaching?

That is the logical next question. This article, while of course not scientific, does give some qualitative perspective on that issue.

 

[Alan]

Now that's the question that Barnes et al should be focused on, not the race card they keep playing.

The two are linked, though.

 

[Johnny75]

Where are you getting that data? Because what I'm seeing doesn't say that at all.

http://www.farenet.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/We-speak-with-one-voice.pdf

There you go Alan, ignore the level 1&2 data as meaningful professional employment is not considered until the B license. Crewe will not employ anybody without an A License. That's less than 200 BME candidates for top level coaching positions and only 13 people of BME that can be considered for the top coaching and managerial positions.

The fact 4 of these men are employed is a pretty good employment rate wouldn't you say?

 

[Alan]

Interesting that that is what you've linked to when it is exactly what I was looking at before.

3.4% is not equal to 4.2%, 4.8%, or 6.4%. It's close, but not equal.

Shouldn't the 9 remaining coaches with the UEFA Pro be immediately top candidates somewhere rather than looking for work?