The Euro 2024 Thread

[MARKakaJIM]

In terms of being gritty bastards that fight to the death to win the game? Then yes he's right.

I'm not sure I'd go with gritty bastards fighting to the death.

More like lost souls lingering around a cinema when the lights have come up because they can't find the exit.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Depends on your outlook I guess, I'd rather enjoy the good moments than be miserable.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Depends on your outlook I guess, I'd rather enjoy the good moments than be miserable.

I watched it for 2 hours to see about 10 seconds of good stuff, it's hardly a stretch to see that in a negative light is it?

 

[Kenny]

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I think Toney probably helped us get over the line, it was the best thing Southgate did all game (low, low bar). An assist and he held the the ball up really well a few times by 'buying a foul'

It wasn’t the fact that he brought him on that’s annoying me, it’s the fact that he decided that the 92nd minute would be the best time to do it.

 

[sycophantia]

I get the lack of confidence even the mindset within the camp.

Ever since Southgate came into the job there has been no negativity from the fans, we have all been in this together.

That got us
Semi Final
Final
Last 16 against a team who when we play it's a toss up who wins, and were a penalty away from winning the game.

Now the amount of abuse Southgate and the players are getting is not going to help us win games.

We need to remember what it was like before Southgate and the disconnect between the fans and team.

Was it good no
Did we win yes
Do good teams win when they play bad
Did we keep going

I wouldn't call it abuse, Graham Taylor got abuse.
I personally wouldn't ever boo my team but completely understand those that have. They've spent 1000s pounds and the players and coach have been cowardly, people can cope with playing poorly or out played but it's been appalling for 4 games. Pundits have been critical but fair imo. The stuff Southgate, Kane and Bellingham have come out with won't help either, makes them sound like entitled, arrogant twats.
They just need to suck it up, get on with it and ultimately play better and with more heart.

 

[sycophantia]

It wasn’t the fact that he brought him on that’s annoying me, it’s the fact that he decided that the 92nd minute would be the best time to do it.

Oh yeah, sorry, that's fair.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

If we'd watched, I don't know, Germany win the way we did last night we'd be saying - well they always find a way, that's how you win tournaments, yadda yadda, blah blah.

Now I'm not saying the performance shouldn't be analysed - but the negativity generally just seems a bit much, we're in the Quarter Finals.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

In retrospect do you look back fondly on our showing at the 2006 World Cup?

We made the QF then too, and played in a similar fashion, with a similarly talented squad and a manager who had also run out of ideas after a long time in charge.

 

[sycophantia]

If we'd watched, I don't know, Germany win the way we did last night we'd be saying - well they always find a way, that's how you win tournaments, yadda yadda, blah blah.

Now I'm not saying the performance shouldn't be analysed - but the negativity generally just seems a bit much, we're in the Quarter Finals.

I'm not sure we'd be saying "they always find a way" more like they were jammy gits who didn't deserve to go through. Has it been that negative? We've been rubbish and got away with it and need to up our game considerably going forwards.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

In retrospect do you look back fondly on our showing at the 2006 World Cup?

We made the QF then too, and played in a similar fashion, with a similarly talented squad and a manager who had also run out of ideas after a long time in charge.

It depends on the outcome doesn't it?

If we go out to the Swiss on Saturday, then absolutely I agree.

But as long as we are in the tournament and progressing, then I think it's OTT.

I can just see a situation where we win the final v Austria and people still moan - "well, we had an easy route/draw, it doesnt count.."

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Has it been that negative?

Yes!!!

 

[Sniffer]

It depends on the outcome doesn't it?

If we go out to the Swiss on Saturday, then absolutely I agree.

But as long as we are in the tournament and progressing, then I think it's OTT.

I can just see a situation where we win the final v Austria and people still moan - "well, we had an easy route/draw, it doesnt count.."

We can't play Austria in the final.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

My point remains.

We got to the final in 2021 the best we've done in my lifetime, instead of enjoying that fact it's always "it was an easy route" "Germany aren't what they were" "we should have won the final"

But generally the very obvious criticisms aren't made about 1990 or 1996? Why is Southgate's time held under so much more scrutiny despite him clearly being our most successful manager since 1966?

And all these comments may well be true to an extent (although we smashed Ukraine and hadn't beaten Germany in a tournament for decades), but it's just so bloody English to want something so much, but then moan about it when it happens.

It's like the weather, "I wanted it to get warmer, but not THIS warm"

"I want England to progress, but not like THIS"..

 

[Tony Towner]

England were absolutely destroyed by the press during the tournament in 90, way more than anything they are getting now

 

[MARKakaJIM]

If we'd watched, I don't know, Germany win the way we did last night we'd be saying - well they always find a way, that's how you win tournaments, yadda yadda, blah blah.

Now I'm not saying the performance shouldn't be analysed - but the negativity generally just seems a bit much, we're in the Quarter Finals.

People have slagged of Portugal for years with their previous negative manager, Belgium under various managers have underwhelmed with a very talented squad, France too under Deschamps.

This isn't people having their view warped by a team they're attached to, they're pointed out the same underperformance they've witnessed elsewhere.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

England were absolutely destroyed by the press during the tournament in 90, way more than anything they are getting now

I don't think they are, Mainly because Social Media etc did not exist, the AI interviews are a fucking Joke, it's ridiculous

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

England were absolutely destroyed by the press during the tournament in 90, way more than anything they are getting now

It's a different world now, what Taylor and Robson experienced from a few papers was vile.

But social media has made it entirely different, Saka and Rashford were subjected to awful racism directly on their accounts after the final against Italy.

Also, in 1990 the players returned to a hero's welcome. Likewise In 96 they were treated as brave and unlucky.

Look at the comparison with the defeat to Italy! It was met with anger.

 

[Del Woppio]

I get the lack of confidence even the mindset within the camp.

Ever since Southgate came into the job there has been no negativity from the fans, we have all been in this together.

That got us
Semi Final
Final
Last 16 against a team who when we play it's a toss up who wins, and were a penalty away from winning the game.

Now the amount of abuse Southgate and the players are getting is not going to help us win games.

We need to remember what it was like before Southgate and the disconnect between the fans and team.

Was it good no
Did we win yes
Do good teams win when they play bad
Did we keep going

It's such a simplistic view. Look at our record in knockout tournament football. Yes, we've managed to get some easy draws and thanks to that got to a SF/Final, but it's built on fucking sand.

2018 - beat Colombia on pens, and beat Sweden, lost to Croatia
2020 - beat Ukraine and Denmark, lost the final on pens
2022 - beat Senegal and lost to France.

We beat teams we should - sometimes convincingly, others less so. As soon as we face a decent team we shit ourselves and play like an underdog. Looking at the route in each tournament, we've achieved the minimum expectation then failed every serious test.

That's all on the manager.

 

[Tony Towner]

It's a different world now, what Taylor and Robson experienced from a few papers was vile.

But social media has made it entirely different, Saka and Rashford were subjected to awful racism directly on their accounts after the final against Italy.

Also, in 1990 the players returned to a hero's welcome. Likewise In 96 they were treated as brave and unlucky.

Look at the comparison with the defeat to Italy! It was met with anger.

And rightly so. The manager blew what was essentially a home tournament with a group of players good enough to have won it and individually better than the opposition.

In 90 despite mainly poor performances we took a German team who were better than we were to penalties. Context is everything. Fwiw I thought the returning heroes welcome was OTT, but again that was mainly media driven, essentially spotting what they had with Gascoigne, whipping it up, before they spat him out.