The Euro 2024 Thread

[Tony Towner]

England were absolutely destroyed by the press during the tournament in 90, way more than anything they are getting now

 

[MARKakaJIM]

If we'd watched, I don't know, Germany win the way we did last night we'd be saying - well they always find a way, that's how you win tournaments, yadda yadda, blah blah.

Now I'm not saying the performance shouldn't be analysed - but the negativity generally just seems a bit much, we're in the Quarter Finals.

People have slagged of Portugal for years with their previous negative manager, Belgium under various managers have underwhelmed with a very talented squad, France too under Deschamps.

This isn't people having their view warped by a team they're attached to, they're pointed out the same underperformance they've witnessed elsewhere.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

England were absolutely destroyed by the press during the tournament in 90, way more than anything they are getting now

I don't think they are, Mainly because Social Media etc did not exist, the AI interviews are a fucking Joke, it's ridiculous

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

England were absolutely destroyed by the press during the tournament in 90, way more than anything they are getting now

It's a different world now, what Taylor and Robson experienced from a few papers was vile.

But social media has made it entirely different, Saka and Rashford were subjected to awful racism directly on their accounts after the final against Italy.

Also, in 1990 the players returned to a hero's welcome. Likewise In 96 they were treated as brave and unlucky.

Look at the comparison with the defeat to Italy! It was met with anger.

 

[Del Woppio]

I get the lack of confidence even the mindset within the camp.

Ever since Southgate came into the job there has been no negativity from the fans, we have all been in this together.

That got us
Semi Final
Final
Last 16 against a team who when we play it's a toss up who wins, and were a penalty away from winning the game.

Now the amount of abuse Southgate and the players are getting is not going to help us win games.

We need to remember what it was like before Southgate and the disconnect between the fans and team.

Was it good no
Did we win yes
Do good teams win when they play bad
Did we keep going

It's such a simplistic view. Look at our record in knockout tournament football. Yes, we've managed to get some easy draws and thanks to that got to a SF/Final, but it's built on fucking sand.

2018 - beat Colombia on pens, and beat Sweden, lost to Croatia
2020 - beat Ukraine and Denmark, lost the final on pens
2022 - beat Senegal and lost to France.

We beat teams we should - sometimes convincingly, others less so. As soon as we face a decent team we shit ourselves and play like an underdog. Looking at the route in each tournament, we've achieved the minimum expectation then failed every serious test.

That's all on the manager.

 

[Tony Towner]

It's a different world now, what Taylor and Robson experienced from a few papers was vile.

But social media has made it entirely different, Saka and Rashford were subjected to awful racism directly on their accounts after the final against Italy.

Also, in 1990 the players returned to a hero's welcome. Likewise In 96 they were treated as brave and unlucky.

Look at the comparison with the defeat to Italy! It was met with anger.

And rightly so. The manager blew what was essentially a home tournament with a group of players good enough to have won it and individually better than the opposition.

In 90 despite mainly poor performances we took a German team who were better than we were to penalties. Context is everything. Fwiw I thought the returning heroes welcome was OTT, but again that was mainly media driven, essentially spotting what they had with Gascoigne, whipping it up, before they spat him out.

 

[Jinky]

My point remains.

We got to the final in 2021 the best we've done in my lifetime, instead of enjoying that fact it's always "it was an easy route" "Germany aren't what they were" "we should have won the final"

But generally the very obvious criticisms aren't made about 1990 or 1996? Why is Southgate's time held under so much more scrutiny despite him clearly being our most successful manager since 1966?

And all these comments may well be true to an extent (although we smashed Ukraine and hadn't beaten Germany in a tournament for decades), but it's just so bloody English to want something so much, but then moan about it when it happens.

It's like the weather, "I wanted it to get warmer, but not THIS warm"

"I want England to progress, but not like THIS"..

What do you want the outcome of this discussion to be?

People are commenting on what has, at least up to this point, been 4 insipid performances from a team packed with superstars.

Of course there will always be the odd idiot who takes it too far, but in the main, much/all of the criticism I have seen so far has been fully justified.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

And rightly so. The manager blew what was essentially a home tournament with a group of players good enough to have won it and individually better than the opposition.

.

But Venables is lauded for blowing a home tournament with a group of players capable of winning it?

 

[Tony Towner]

But Venables is lauded for blowing a home tournament with a group of players capable of winning it?

Again only really in the media in my experience due to Venables being their guy. I can only speak for my peer group, the feeling was mainly of disappointment, definitely not triumph.

 

[leedswolf]

It wasn’t the fact that he brought him on that’s annoying me, it’s the fact that he decided that the 92nd minute would be the best bet to do it.

FIFY

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But Venables is lauded for blowing a home tournament with a group of players capable of winning it?

Also made NO subs in the semi-final!

Euro 96 has always been mythologised.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

What do you want the outcome of this discussion to be?

The outcome? I'm just giving my opinion that whilst I think performances have been poor, I'd much sooner we progress playing poorly rather than go out playing well.

I don't think GS is treated with the fondness he should be compared to other managers who have not achieved as much (perhaps that will change in time), I also think fans have very short memories such as Iceland, 2008, 2000, 2014 which were truly fucking dreadful periods and that there's a lot of entitlement.

 

[Johnny75]

Of course there will always be the odd idiot who takes it too far, but in the main, much/all of the criticism I have seen so far has been fully justified.

I don't think you've taken it too far Jinks.

 

[jlo]

What's worse, we can all probably rightly predict the team to play Switzerland is going to be the same but with Konsa in for Guehi. Despite looking more threatening when we changed the system.

 

[Sniffer]

I think that Southgate has been praised on here for his stint as England manager and even those who have not been over enamoured by him have given praise for how he bought the squad a new mentality and togetherness. There's also an acknowledgement of how far we've gone in tournaments being as good as most of us have seen in our lifetimes.
That being said, I think that the criticism of him in this tournament has been fair and most of it is due to the decisions of his making. No left back, no balance, not making changes, running players into the ground. There's a lot to go at

 

[prawnking]

it's just so bloody English to want something so much, but then moan about it when it happens.

It's like the weather, "I wanted it to get warmer, but not THIS warm"

"I want England to progress, but not like THIS"..

"I wanted Labour to win a GE, but not THIS Labour!"

 

[jd1981]

Southgate has won more knockout matches than every other manager combined since 1966. Tells you just how bad England have been.

 

[Tony Towner]

Southgate has won more knockout matches than every other manager combined since 1966. Tells you just how bad England have been.

And how bloated tournaments have become. The first knockouts of the Euros used to be the semis

 

[Kenny]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1807776855446950127

 

[ROVERT47]

What did he do?, just saw him cupping his ear which was fair enough.