The Blame Game

[Deutsch Wolf]

My riposte. Hopefully I did that like a normal person.

There you go, that's me proven wrong, you can do it. Bet it wasn't too hard either.

Being civil and constructive rather than blithering on about "webmongs" and how you don't care what anyone thinks tends to work better.

 

[Tony Towner]

I am often ridiculed by Johnny and others and frankly I have crocodile skin but I also recognise that I can be dogmatic so , genuinely, despite his calling me stupid, I want to know why it's docs fault and not Moutinho?

Because Moutinho isn't the wing back, he's not the guy who will have spent hours in training replicating that kind of situation and he's not the one both Coady and Bennett call over to do what he's supposed to do.

 

[Johnny75]

I am often ridiculed by Johnny and others and frankly I have crocodile skin but I also recognise that I can be dogmatic so , genuinely, despite his calling me stupid, I want to know why it's docs fault and not Moutinho?

Firstly I didn't call you stupid, I said it was a stupid statement. Secondly, as I have explained repeatedly, it is the tactics we employ. Players have certain movements to make and players get passed on when they reach certain points on the pitch.

THIS IS THE WAY WE HAVE PLAYED FOR AT LEAST 12 months!!!!!!

Moutinho hits the edge of the area where he has then stopped as is where he has been coached to go, this will be for several reasons:

1) So as not to drag evenmore attackers into the box
2) He doesn't block his own defenders moving out to attack the ball
3) To challenge for the second ball if a header/ keeper punch is won inside the box
4) So he can be available for a pass if that option is on
5) To be in a position to get further up the pitch quicker on the counter
6) To block shots from the edge of the area if the ball gets cut back

That's why he and Neves sit on the edge of the area. It is also why both wing banks should tuck in when there's a cross from the opposite side.

You can argue that the system is wrong but that's Nuno's way and he's done well so far with it.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Firstly I didn't call you stupid, I said it was a stupid statement. Secondly, as I have explained repeatedly, it is the tactics we employ. Players have certain movements to make and players get passed on when they reach certain points on the pitch.

THIS IS THE WAY WE HAVE PLAYED FOR AT LEAST 12 months!!!!!!

Moutinho hits the edge of the area where he has then stopped as is where he has been coached to go, this will be for several reasons:

1) So as not to drag evenmore attackers into the box
2) He doesn't block his own defenders moving out to attack the ball
3) To challenge for the second ball if a header/ keeper punch is won inside the box
4) So he can be available for a pass if that option is on
5) To be in a position to get further up the pitch quicker on the counter
6) To block shots from the edge of the area if the ball gets cut back

That's why he and Neves sit on the edge of the area. It is also why both wing banks should tuck in when there's a cross from the opposite side.

You can argue that the system is wrong but that's Nuno's way and he's done well so far with it.

Great explanation. Fair enough. Cheers Johnny. Cracking. Then it's just a clever well worked spurs goal.i can go with that.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

There you go, that's me proven wrong, you can do it. Bet it wasn't too hard either.

Being civil and constructive rather than blithering on about "webmongs" and how you don't care what anyone thinks tends to work better.

Well none of that occurred before my style was called abnormal either, maybe you just fancied an insult for the sake of it.

 

[Del Woppio]

If Matt Doherty had been signed from Benfica in August 17, the last three pages of this thread don't happen

 

[Johnny75]

If Matt Doherty had been signed from Benfica in August 17, the last three pages of this thread don't happen

I don't think this is true.

 

[Tony Towner]

It isn't

 

[Jinky]

I don't think this is true.

It isn't

I agree; but I'm also confident a lot more is made out of Doherty's errors than other players. The evidence is in this very thread, so I assume neither of you can disagree with that? It's just the way it is.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Doherty, Bennett, Boly and Patricio are the [players who have been "credited" with goal conceding mistakes more than others. Lots of debate about the others but those 4 names stand out. Saying there is no anti-Doherty bias is naive. DW. will give credit when its due but also is quick to apportion blame. I think Jonny Castro hasnt been as brilliant as some have thought but thats only opinion. The premier league also see Doherty as performing well generally hence his player of the month award

Of course since getting awards for MoTM and POTM we have secured the square root of fuck all points but , Like incongruous gifs, I am banned from mentioning any form of curse or jinx as certain members blood pressures cant cope with anything other than factual accurracy:happy:

 

[Del Woppio]

Yeah, I'm not saying he isn't mentioned in dispatches as a 'could do better' on it, but we don't have pages of people trying so hard to pin a disproportionate amount of blame on him. If that Trippier cross had come from Ben Davies, and Lamela had scored, I can guarantee that there wouldn't be this much focus on marking, it'd be all about why doc let the cross in in the first place, rather than Jonny not picking up

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, I'm not saying he isn't mentioned in dispatches as a 'could do better' on it, but we don't have pages of people trying so hard to pin a disproportionate amount of blame on him. If that Trippier cross had come from Ben Davies, and Lamela had scored, I can guarantee that there wouldn't be this much focus on marking, it'd be all about why doc let the cross in in the first place, rather than Jonny not picking up

But again Jonny is on the list for not stopping the cross, other people have said that yes, that is the root cause of the goal (doesn't mean it's an inevitability as soon as it leaves Trippier's foot though).

If you want to see an agenda then fine, or you could accept that Matt Doherty still isn't a particularly good defender, for everything else that he brings to the party.

 

[b3h]

But again Jonny is on the list for not stopping the cross, other people have said that yes, that is the root cause of the goal (doesn't mean it's an inevitability as soon as it leaves Trippier's foot though).

If you want to see an agenda then fine, or you could accept that Matt Doherty still isn't a particularly good defender, for everything else that he brings to the party.

A vegetable roast

 

[Tony Towner]

I agree; but I'm also confident a lot more is made out of Doherty's errors than other players. The evidence is in this very thread, so I assume neither of you can disagree with that? It's just the way it is.

Agreed, but my original post although highlighting Doherty as being the one who was responsible (in my view) for the defensive structure failing was intended more around showing how we ended up conceding a free header 6 yards out and it not being because Bennett went walkabout. I would also agree with Cyber that Jonny isn't as good as some think he is.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

By the way, the reason there is more space taken up discussing Doherty is because some people (for some reason) insist on defending him 100% of the time whenever he gets blamed in any way. I don't see anyone screaming about how dare we slate Jonny for not stopping the cross*, it's a one note thing, he should have done better, end of discussion.

*In fact, not the first time this has been a contributing factor to a goal we've conceded. If you look, he's marked down on it for Leicester's first goal. You know, the one where Doherty crashed it home under no pressure. If ever a goal could ever be put down to one individual and his square head, that was it. But no, there are three people marked down there and they all get 1 mention each. Still though, AGENDAS all over the fucking shop.

Edit: I'd forgotten that Del tried to absolve him of blame for that OG during the match :icon_lol: "Nothing he could do once Coady flicked it" :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

The arguments this morning have boiled down to "if this hypothetical goal were scored then this is what you would have said, definitely" and "everyone would love Matt Doherty if we signed him from Benfica". Sadly though this is a thread for stuff that actually did happen. If you want to write your own fan fiction about a flying wing back called Mattao who everyone loves and the club shop has sold out of beard wigs as a result, be my guest, just put it on another thread.

 

[Johnny75]

Yeah, I'm not saying he isn't mentioned in dispatches as a 'could do better' on it, but we don't have pages of people trying so hard to pin a disproportionate amount of blame on him. If that Trippier cross had come from Ben Davies, and Lamela had scored, I can guarantee that there wouldn't be this much focus on marking, it'd be all about why doc let the cross in in the first place, rather than Jonny not picking up

:icon_lol:

So can we put you, Mark and EP in the Doherty did nothing wrong camp?

As for your last comment, that didn't happen and silly on your part to suggest what people would and wouldn't say.

 

[Johnny75]

Mattao, our new Brazilian wing back. Stolen from under the noses of Juventus who were about to put in a £75m bid. Benfica fans have been burning effigies of Uncle Jorge for days having sold a fan favourite, blaming him for this debacle and just making money.

SLB has posted that this is really Benfica's new mind control at work and Wolves will be playing in red and white from next season.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

But again Jonny is on the list for not stopping the cross, other people have said that yes, that is the root cause of the goal (doesn't mean it's an inevitability as soon as it leaves Trippier's foot though).

If you want to see an agenda then fine, or you could accept that Matt Doherty still isn't a particularly good defender, for everything else that he brings to the party.

Well Jonny hasn’t got any blame for Murray’s goal, yet the shit cross/shot came from his side. (Now i’m not for a moment saying that he should get blame, but if Doherty is then...?)

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Well Jonny hasn’t got any blame for Murray’s goal, yet the shit cross/shot came from his side. (Now i’m not for a moment saying that he should get blame, but if Doherty is then...?)

The two situations aren't remotely comparable (and in any case Traore got his share of blame for his own bit of half-arsed, "oh there he is" defending).

Presumably that's an agenda too as I don't like Cirque du Adama very much

 

[Parkins left foot]

This is becoming a bit tedious - ultimately it's rarely one single players fault, but an accumulation of small errors by a number that cause the problem.

Really a byproduct of the fact that this is our first season back in the PL where most of our team haven't played here before - hopefully they learn how to deal with it. If they don't then they will get replaced.