The Blame Game

[White Wolf]

As we win the ball back and concede possession sloppily immediately after then you can't put Neves at fault for the goal. His tackling is his weakest area obviously though, only 3 games in but it doesn't seem like it has improved much from last year. Not really a criticism but more of an observation, I am sure it is being worked on.

 

[Tredman]

Equally, he didn't get the ball either.

I don't think Neves is really noted for his tackling, but equally it hasn't really sprung to mind that he is particularly a par tackler either.

Yeah, i think that was my point which was lost in time - he is doing more tacking this season and doing it better, doesn't make him kante though.

 

[Derby Wolf]

I thought it was Neves? To be fair in that run Sane HAD to be stopped, he'd already beaten 3 or 4 men. It's just the clumsy challenges that trouble me, as they can so often lead to chances/goals at this level, as has been proven already.

Sane wasn't in possession, the foul was given for Moutinho clipping Aguero. The last player to challenge Sane was Traore who passed to Aguero after riding the challenge.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

What? You're on about a different goal. This alleged foul happened before the first one.

How about next time Doherty controls it straight out of play and the opposition score 20 minutes later, I blame him? That'd go down well I'm sure.

No i'm not, Neves fouled Maddison before Leicester's first goal.

 

[Langers]

No i'm not, Neves fouled Maddison before Leicester's first goal.

It's true. Here's the photo.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I suggest a few of you watch the coverage of the first Leicester goal again.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

No i'm not, Neves fouled Maddison before Leicester's first goal.

I thought when you were talking about Maddison "blazing it over the bar" you were on about the second, not the first where he played zero part.

When that phase of play (the dead ball) has ended - quite conclusively, as we were back in possession - you absolutely cannot say it had anything to do with us conceding afterwards.

 

[Quirkafleeg]

Albrighton crossed in from open play.. Then Doherty did the rest.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I thought when you were talking about Maddison "blazing it over the bar" you were on about the second, not the first where he played zero part.

When that phase of play (the dead ball) has ended - quite conclusively, as we were back in possession - you absolutely cannot say it had anything to do with us conceding afterwards.

I can say that, because it definitely did effect that passage of play, as I explained we don't know what would have happened had Neves not fouled Maddison in the first instance, as I said he (Maddison) could well have blazed the ball over the bar and then Rui knocks it long and we could well score from that, OR as i said, Maddison could well have scored from that passage of play if Neves didn't foul him, we will never know. But given Neves fouled Maddison so near to Leicester scoring it is fair to mention it!

Lets not forget that many on here blamed Doherty for the foul that lead to Everton's first goal, and whilst there were mistakes after that, it is correct that Doherty is worthy of criticism in that instance.

I'm sure that Nuno will have identified that of the 5 goals we have conceded 3 of them came soon after we had needlessly given free kicks away.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Albrighton crossed in from open play.. Then Doherty did the rest.

Thanks for that, it has nothing to do with the conversation, but cheers.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Doherty was to blame there because a) it definitely was a foul, unlike the Neves/Sterling clash b) he had no chance of winning the ball and no need to make the tackle, so it was a completely stupid challenge c) they scored directly as a consequence of that free kick - Baines crossed it and they scored. He didn't cross it, we cleared it (miles away from the box), regained possession, lost possession and THEN they scored further down the line.

I don't know about apples and oranges, that's more like apples and crocodiles.

Look where Jota loses the ball. I think it's fair to say the initial danger from the set piece is over. If we don't just hand them the ball back.

 

[Quirkafleeg]

Thanks for that, it has nothing to do with the conversation, but cheers.

Dont be a cunt.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Doherty was to blame there because a) it definitely was a foul, unlike the Neves/Sterling clash b) he had no chance of winning the ball and no need to make the tackle, so it was a completely stupid challenge c) they scored directly as a consequence of that free kick - Baines crossed it and they scored. He didn't cross it, we cleared it (miles away from the box), regained possession, lost possession and THEN they scored further down the line.

I don't know about apples and oranges, that's more like apples and crocodiles.

Look where Jota loses the ball. I think it's fair to say the initial danger from the set piece is over. If we don't just hand them the ball back.

Where Jota loses the ball is totally irrelevant, i'm sure David Ginola may agree with you though....

Oh and look back at the Neves foul, as you bring up needless that definitely fits in that bracket,
I think it's short sighted to only look at it from when Jota lost the ball, i'd hope the management team analayse things a lot more deeply than that, there are many factors that contribute to goals, and from the free kick being given to the ball going in the net was one passage of play.

Oh and please, find a quote where i have said the Neves foul and the Doherty foul were equal in their effect on us conceding.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Dont be a cunt.

Funnily enough i could have written that in response to your initial comment, but hey, i thought i'd be better than that.

 

[Quirkafleeg]

:bananasex:

 

[The Bear]

I agree with EP. Neves has been putting himself about a bit too much IMO and has been giving silly fouls away. He needs to cut them down to a minimum. It's not as if he has a good record with bookings and fouls from last season either. At this level you'll get punished more for them eventually.

 

[PuntsWolf]

He’s clumsy tackling, yes. But a lot of the time the fouls are just Niggly ones breaking up play when they’ve got past.

Blaming him for the Maddison one is laughable. It was clever play from Maddison stepping across him rather than a foul in itself. You can’t blame him for that, any player would have done the same thing.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The simple point is that Neves gave away a free kick. Which we defended and kept possession. We had the ball. End of his participation in the blame for that goal.

Saying otherwise is complete and utter bollocks.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Anyway, basic rule of tort is chain of causation. That chain was broken when we successfully defended the free kick.

 

[Alan]

FWIW I think Ruben's tackling has been mostly poor this season with or without crediting/blaming him directly for any goals.

The incident with Silva last Saturday is indicative of his tackling technique, really.