The Athletics Thread...

[FrankMunro-371]

Russia are denying any wrongdoing. These revelations put the whole of athletics under a very dark cloud. Just how many cheats have won medals ahead of "clean" athletes?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Hundreds.

 

[Kenny]

Big test for Seb Coe coming up now. This is a huge scandal to deal with and lets see if he has the balls to stand up to Russia and its Government.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

We will know by the end of the week. This is a crossroads very similar to the one faced by cycling. Now cycling is the most tested sport and still there is innuendo and allegation. Athletics is going to have the same issues in future.

 

[nimrod]

We will know by the end of the week. This is a crossroads very similar to the one faced by cycling. Now cycling is the most tested sport and still there is innuendo and allegation. Athletics is going to have the same issues in future.

'most tested sport' doesn't mean anything really. isn't athletics heavily tested?

don't sports people take drugs in the view that they can get an advantage without getting caught. the point above would suggest that cycling being so heavily tested should mean that nobody takes anything dodgy, which isn't the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

isn't the reality about drugs and sport that no one really knows who is, isn't, might be, might have once dabbled. it's a leap of faith sometimes based on nothing more than do we particularly like this person and/or their nationality/team. the leap of faith is easier if you don't suspect the governing body of being corrupt and prepared to cover up positive tests either for individual gain or 'for the good of the sport' - ie credibility with the public, access to funding. regardless, it's still a leap of faith.

imo better to have innuendo and if necessary 'reasoned' allegation than blind pretence that everything is ok. it's immaterial anyway because you will never stop the innuendo, no matter how unpalatable it seems.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

'most tested sport' doesn't mean anything really. isn't athletics heavily tested?

don't sports people take drugs in the view that they can get an advantage without getting caught. the point above would suggest that cycling being so heavily tested should mean that nobody takes anything dodgy, which isn't the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

isn't the reality about drugs and sport that no one really knows who is, isn't, might be, might have once dabbled. it's a leap of faith sometimes based on nothing more than do we particularly like this person and/or their nationality/team. the leap of faith is easier if you don't suspect the governing body of being corrupt and prepared to cover up positive tests either for individual gain or 'for the good of the sport' - ie credibility with the public, access to funding. regardless, it's still a leap of faith.

imo better to have innuendo and if necessary 'reasoned' allegation than blind pretence that everything is ok. it's immaterial anyway because you will never stop the innuendo, no matter how unpalatable it seems.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gol...ing-and-athletics-for-drug-findings-1.2301094

Athletics had roughly 25,000 cases and Cycling 22,000 both with 1% detection rates, athletics does have far more professional participants then cycling so as a proportion a cyclist has more chance of being tested.

There is a perception now that cycling has cleaned up its act with regards the governing body who previously had kept Lance's dodgy bits away from the public.

The IAAF has so far seen to have paid only lip service to the whole drug testing, allowing twice caught athletes to compete again etc, turning a blind eye to Kenya, Jamaica, Turkey as well as Russia, Coe has not covered himself in glory so far, firstly acting the media who published the results and their "so-called experts" calling it an act of war on the sport and since then procrastinating about what to do.

 

[nimrod]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gol...ing-and-athletics-for-drug-findings-1.2301094

Athletics had roughly 25,000 cases and Cycling 22,000 both with 1% detection rates, athletics does have far more professional participants then cycling so as a proportion a cyclist has more chance of being tested.

There is a perception now that cycling has cleaned up its act with regards the governing body who previously had kept Lance's dodgy bits away from the public.

The IAAF has so far seen to have paid only lip service to the whole drug testing, allowing twice caught athletes to compete again etc, turning a blind eye to Kenya, Jamaica, Turkey as well as Russia, Coe has not covered himself in glory so far, firstly acting the media who published the results and their "so-called experts" calling it an act of war on the sport and since then procrastinating about what to do.

i'd agree cycling is cleaner than it was in Lance's days - though i imagine it couldn't fail to be. whether the level of testing, degree of scrutiny and avoidance of cover ups is consistent across all cycling events is anyone's guess. i imagine the general public would presume testing is consistent and also sufficient to catch all forms of cheating, which also may not be the case. that's not just cycling of course but potentially all sports.

i found Coe's critique of the media bizarre at the time and it looks even worse now. if there have been positive tests that have been covered up, then there is clearly a chain of people who were aware of it, not simply the president. even if Coe was not in that chain, as VP for 8 years(?) he was certainly in a position to have questioned/investigated/challenged and potentially uncovered any wrongdoing. which either he didn't bother to do, or he didn't do very well.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The problem you have is that once there is a perception that a sport is dirty, then that is impossible to shift.

Start a thread about the Tour De France (actually don't as we already have one!) and you can almost guarantee that some post will appear about "why watch a load of chemical factories climbing up hills?" Even with the massive steps forward taken by cycling it is going to take decades for that stigma to be erased, if it ever is at all. It is also about a lot more than Lance Armstrong - the Festina affair, the death of Tom Simpson, Marco Pantani etc etc. Even so called heroes of the sport such as Ancquetil admitted doping during their career. About the only ones who didn't admit it were Merckx and Indurain. Armstrong was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

If athletics finds itself in that situation then all the believability is gone. As I see it now, it is holding on because this is perceived as state-sponsored doping by Russia, exactly like East Germany was doing in the late seventies, so people can sit back and go "it's just those nasty commies who do it" and just carry on. If state sponsored doping appears in a Western country then that will be athletics having its own Lance Armstrong moment.

 

[nimrod]

The problem you have is that once there is a perception that a sport is dirty, then that is impossible to shift.

Start a thread about the Tour De France (actually don't as we already have one!) and you can almost guarantee that some post will appear about "why watch a load of chemical factories climbing up hills?" Even with the massive steps forward taken by cycling it is going to take decades for that stigma to be erased, if it ever is at all. It is also about a lot more than Lance Armstrong - the Festina affair, the death of Tom Simpson, Marco Pantani etc etc. Even so called heroes of the sport such as Ancquetil admitted doping during their career. About the only ones who didn't admit it were Merckx and Indurain. Armstrong was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

If athletics finds itself in that situation then all the believability is gone. As I see it now, it is holding on because this is perceived as state-sponsored doping by Russia, exactly like East Germany was doing in the late seventies, so people can sit back and go "it's just those nasty commies who do it" and just carry on. If state sponsored doping appears in a Western country then that will be athletics having its own Lance Armstrong moment.

i’m not sure which people, if any, would have considered armstrong in this way. with respect, it sounds like a way to underplay his villainous acts. to his sponsors and fans he was cycling, the only man in the room. more a giant haystack than a straw. i doubt any of those people would have quit watching/sponsoring the sport whilst pondering ancquetil, simpson or even pantani. it was all because of armstrong.

and real cycling fans like you still love the sport so the camel is still riding.

i also think people can be sceptical and highly sceptical and still enjoy a sport. from an athletics perspective, wasn't it 4 of the 8 100m world finalists who've had drugs bans of some form yet i'm sure it was still considered the biggest race by the public. and does anyone really believe Flo Jo's world records were done clean?

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Adidas has announced it is ending its sponsorship deal with the IAAF four years early. This is apparently as a direct result of recent doping allegations. Tough times ahead for Lord Coe I would imagine as he tries to clean up the athletics world.

 

[Sniffer]

Jessica Ennis Hill has retired from athletics.

A wonderful athlete and role model.

 

[machin05]

I'd like to hear Bear's opinion of her....

 

[The Bear]

I have no opinion either way about her and don't really know anything about her.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Jessica Ennis Hill has retired from athletics.

A wonderful athlete and role model.

I expected her compete in next years world championships in London, and then to retire.

 

[Kenny]

I expected her compete in next years world championships in London, and then to retire.

She sends her apologies for ruining your expectations......

 

[FrankMunro-371]

I didn't know that you knew her.

 

[Kenny]

It was in her press release

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Biblically? Or just acquaintances?

 

[Langers]

One of my favourite memories watching athletics was seeing her win gold in London. A great champion and TBH the gold Thiam won in Rio was so impressive that she'd be up against it to win the world championship next year!

Would love KJT to get a medal but can't see her emulating Ennis-Hill.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Just to please Kenny I will rephrase my original comment

I thought, and hoped that she would run in London next year. It was the scene of her greatest triumph, and it would have been fitting to end her career there.