Summer 2021 transfer window

[Deutsch Wolf]

Ronaldo is slightly different as the story is that he ran rings around them in a preseason game, but before that still had a full season in senior football to show he had something. Fabio Silva had no senior football to base paying £35m. Not a massive leap to say we’d overpaid.

He did but the move was going on in the background for months and months before (when he'd played hardly any games at all). Not true at all that he had a worldie and they decided on the coach back to the hotel afterwards to sign him. They knew Arsenal were also interested and had known that for a while too (this being when Arsenal were clearly their main rivals) so they'd been working on it for ages.

I don't know about a full season. Barely creeps over 10 full games in terms of minutes in the league, and scored three goals. Given who they were selling, he was obscure at best (of course there being far less TV/online coverage back then) and the fact that was still a lot of money at the time, it was a huge fee to pay out of seemingly nowhere.

 

[Johnny75]

Wasn’t judging the player, was judging the fee.

They weren’t comparable. The others were playing first team football, and looking the part in a good league.

Ronaldo is slightly different as the story is that he ran rings around them in a preseason game, but before that still had a full season in senior football to show he had something. Fabio Silva had no senior football to base paying £35m. Not a massive leap to say we’d overpaid.

I agree with the fee now but we really couldn't have known how good he was without seeing him play at the time.

Nobody could've made that judgement bar the scouts. And they've clearly got this wrong.

 

[Johnny75]

The amount spent relative to the club is relevant though. RVN was already at Utd and cost about 50% more than Ronaldo.

It really isn't relevant at all.

 

[prawnking]

I'm not advocating a 'nice place to be' I'm berating the echo chamber of condemnation that occurs every game and it's the same people over and over again, but of course in your eyes they're view holds more validity than someone who's more pragmatic.
Thanks for the life lesson though !

I just don't know what the endgame of this 'negativity' obsession is, mate. The forum is already about as positive as it's reasonable to expect. I don't believe anyone's opinion holds more validity, I like seeing different takes.

Just do what the old E&S Mol Mix did and make an Amy's Tavern-style private sub-forum if the peasants are too much to bear!

 

[Paul]

Ronaldo hardly played for Sporting before he came to England. 11 league starts. I'd never heard of him.

Aaah chanting you're not the real Ronaldo at him proving what knowledge we had.
**In mitigation I did witness Theo Walcotts debut as a sub and remember thinking 'he's not anything special !', I am easily the worlds worse scout **

 

[Paul]

, I like seeing different takes.

Traore ?

 

[Tony Towner]

It really isn't relevant at all.

Of course it is. Taking a £35m punt relative to budget and historic spend is relevant

 

[Johnny75]

Of course it is. Taking a £35m punt relative to budget and historic spend is relevant

Nope, completely irrelevant. The players worth and ability have nothing to do with what you've spent on players before.

 

[PuntsWolf]

He did but the move was going on in the background for months and months before (when he'd played hardly any games at all). Not true at all that he had a worldie and they decided on the coach back to the hotel afterwards to sign him. They knew Arsenal were also interested and had known that for a while too (this being when Arsenal were clearly their main rivals) so they'd been working on it for ages.

I don't know about a full season. Barely creeps over 10 full games in terms of minutes in the league, and scored three goals. Given who they were selling, he was obscure at best (of course there being far less TV/online coverage back then) and the fact that was still a lot of money at the time, it was a huge fee to pay out of seemingly nowhere.

I’m just going by what Rio, Scholes et al. have said .

3 goals in just over 10 full games. That’s good! (Yes small sample).

I can’t say I watched him at sporting, but they had something to go off, the fact sporting were giving him minutes suggests he had something. The fact he comes straight in and didn’t look out of his depth at one Of the best teams in the best leagues suggests they’d already seen what he can offer in that season in Portugal.

Porto weren’t giving him minutes (so they didn’t think he was good enough yet) and half the teams they play against are lower championship and his record suggests he wasn’t effective in B football and cup games against dreadful opposition.

The fact that 18year olds rarely go for £35m ( or £10-20m 20 years ago) for starters, certainly not when they have proven literally nothing in senior football, and not to non elite clubs, suggests we overpaid. It really isn’t that big a leap! Educated guess at worst.

Cristiano Ronaldo is the only comparable example (and I don’t think it’s that comparable based on what I’ve put above) in the last 20 years. That says a lot.

 

[prawnking]

Traore ?

I'm not here implying people who don't like Traore are lesser Wolves fans than me. If I disagree with a take I'll engage and put a counter argument rather than ignore the point, take the moral highground and bleat about the mean men stopping me enjoying threads or preventing things being 'nice'

 

[Tony Towner]

So if someone on here a year ago had suggested spending more money on a kid with a few first team apperances than we had on any other player in the clubs history based on a projection that he would be worth it at some point in the future even though he palpably isn't at the moment. That suggestion would have been treated as perfectly logical?

 

[Johnny75]

So if someone on here a year ago had suggested spending more money on a kid with a few first team apperances than any other player in the clubs history based on a projection that he would be worth it at some point in the future even though he palpably isn't at the moment would have been treated as perfectly logical?

No but Nuno and the club had earned the fans trust. If they thought he was worth it then we would've welcomed it, especially given the success of Jota and Neto for less money.

I would say they've lost that trust now.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I’m just going by what Rio, Scholes et al. have said .

3 goals in just over 10 full games. That’s good! (Yes small sample).

I can’t say I watched him at sporting, but they had something to go off, the fact sporting were giving him minutes suggests he had something. The fact he comes straight in and didn’t look out of his depth at one Of the best teams in the best leagues suggests they’d already seen what he can offer in that season in Portugal.

Porto weren’t giving him minutes (so they didn’t think he was good enough yet) and half the teams they play against are lower championship and his record suggests he wasn’t effective in B football and cup games against dreadful opposition.

The fact that 18year olds rarely go for £35m ( or £10-20m 20 years ago) for starters, certainly not when they have proven literally nothing in senior football, and not to non elite clubs, suggests we overpaid. It really isn’t that big a leap! Educated guess at worst.

Cristiano Ronaldo is the only comparable example (and I don’t think it’s that comparable based on what I’ve put above) in the last 20 years. That says a lot.

He kind of did look out of his depth, only 15 league starts for United in his first season, 4 goals, a huge downgrade from Beckham's output at the time.

Don't know if you have an Athletic sub but it's all here:

The real story of football’s biggest transfers – Ronaldo joins Manchester United

You may think you know how Manchester United signed Ronaldo. You don’t. Here is the story as never told before

theathletic.com

Happy to send you a guest pass for a month if you like.

 

[PuntsWolf]

He kind of did look out of his depth, only 15 league starts for United in his first season, 4 goals, a huge downgrade from Beckham's output at the time.

Don't know if you have an Athletic sub but it's all here:

The real story of football’s biggest transfers – Ronaldo joins Manchester United

You may think you know how Manchester United signed Ronaldo. You don’t. Here is the story as never told before

theathletic.com

Happy to send you a guest pass for a month if you like.

I’ll take a read at some point thanks.

He did not look “out of his depth”. He might have not looked as good or have the same output as Beckham (obviously), but they weren’t starting him because they had no choice. We’d also be over the moon with 4 goals from 15 starts from Traore!

It’s universally accepted that Fabio wouldn’t have played if Raul didn’t get injured in a team who are going to finish lower mid-table, because he looks out of his depth. Ronaldo started 24 games in all comps with 2355 mins, providing 6 goals and 9 assists in a team who finished 3rd They are not comparable.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Not directly comparable, no, but in the sense that Cristiano Ronaldo at 18 was someone who didn't even start half the games in a season and went on to be one of the greatest footballers that has ever lived...

You shouldn't be wholesale judging players at that age. Is it what I'd have done with that kind of money in the summer of 2020, no. But that's neither here nor there. It's not up to me.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Wasn’t judging the player, was judging the fee.

They weren’t comparable. The others were playing first team football, and looking the part in a good league.

Ronaldo is slightly different as the story is that he ran rings around them in a preseason game, but before that still had a full season in senior football to show he had something. Fabio Silva had no senior football to base paying £35m. Not a massive leap to say we’d overpaid.

Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask is my currrent summary.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

He did but the move was going on in the background for months and months before (when he'd played hardly any games at all). Not true at all that he had a worldie and they decided on the coach back to the hotel afterwards to sign him. They knew Arsenal were also interested and had known that for a while too (this being when Arsenal were clearly their main rivals) so they'd been working on it for ages.

I don't know about a full season. Barely creeps over 10 full games in terms of minutes in the league, and scored three goals. Given who they were selling, he was obscure at best (of course there being far less TV/online coverage back then) and the fact that was still a lot of money at the time, it was a huge fee to pay out of seemingly nowhere.

Think Real were interested too as I think it coincided with Quiroz going there and he'd been championing his cause at United prior to that.

At how many Premier League clubs would he have become their record signing at £12m at that time? As many as Fabio would've this summer at three times that?

 

[redvictor]

He kind of did look out of his depth, only 15 league starts for United in his first season, 4 goals, a huge downgrade from Beckham's output at the time.

Don't know if you have an Athletic sub but it's all here:

The real story of football’s biggest transfers – Ronaldo joins Manchester United

You may think you know how Manchester United signed Ronaldo. You don’t. Here is the story as never told before

theathletic.com

Happy to send you a guest pass for a month if you like.

Good read that.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The inflation isn't actually that far off, in English football only Chelsea spent more on anyone that summer than United did on Ronaldo, and this was Abramovich's very first summer when he basically handed a load of blank cheques over and didn't care what the fee was.

Do I think it was worth it, no, would I have gone down that road, no, just illustrating that someone who became a world superstar had not far off the same level of inexperience and same level of (lack of) impact in his first PL season (as well as a vastly more effective player leaving to accommodate him in the short term) and to write him off forever at this point is daft.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

The inflation isn't actually that far off, in English football only Chelsea spent more on anyone that summer than United did on Ronaldo, and this was Abramovich's very first summer when he basically handed a load of blank cheques over and didn't care what the fee was.

Do I think it was worth it, no, would I have gone down that road, no, just illustrating that someone who became a world superstar had not far off the same level of inexperience and same level of (lack of) impact in his first PL season (as well as a vastly more effective player leaving to accommodate him in the short term) and to write him off forever at this point is daft.

You can't be saying they sold Beckham with the main purpose of bringing Ronaldo in his place?!