Southampton 0-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Jinky]

He ran into a position where he couldn't be passed to, it was bizarre, he only had to hang back to the penalty spot and Raul could have found him. Looked like a player devoid of confidence to me.

Absolutely correct, and that’s why Cyber/Jasper was making a fair point on the previous page, despite people immediately taking the piss, about confidence within the side & with certain players.

Raul looked short of confidence when he pressed and won the ball back yesterday, was clear through on goal but didn’t want to shoot with his left foot so got tackled.

Semedo was short on confidence when he took his shot inside the first couple of minutes yesterday - Souness called him out on it and was spot on - he’s just thought “I’m not scoring here, I’ll just take the safe option and hit the target”, so instead of putting his laces through it and hitting it in the corner, he smacks it straight at the keeper (the only place the keeper saves it, tbf) - and that’s not the first time.

Donk and Coady were devoid of confidence the other night when they took their penalties. You could just tell immediately when they started walking up that they’d miss.

Confidence breeds results (despite the flippant response on the previous page) in the same way that a lack of confidence hinders results and certain moments within a match. It doesn’t mean tactics aren’t important too, obviously.

We are very much a team low on confidence, with players who need to shift the cloud/loser mentality that’s been a hangover from last season. There’s been glimpses of this happening this season, so we need to be very careful we don’t slip backwards again - which is why 3 points yesterday was vital.

 

[Tony Towner]

It is the managers job to instil confidence though. You can't divorce the two, particularly if you are saying it runs throughout the side

 

[Throbber3]

Nuno finished 7th and made the FA Cup semi final when Costa and Cavaleiro were two players he had to call on quite often. I don't think anyone would take either of those over any of our current options, even with Neto out. We had Bennett at centre half too and had to skew the team to fit bloody Doherty in as all he can do is stand vaguely halfway up the pitch and trundle into the box, rather than play football.

It wasn't like we just handed him a top squad and they performed brilliantly by default.

Patricio (people keep telling me Sa is better, so...)

Bennett
Coady
Boly

Doherty
Neves
Moutinho (three years younger, I'll grant you)
Jonny

Costa
Jimenez
Jota

vs

Sa

Kilman
Coady
Saiss (he could pick Boly either side, he doesn't - that's his choice)

Semedo
Dendoncker (could pick Neves, didn't)
Moutinho
Marçal

Podence
Jimenez
Hwang

I don't think there's that much difference in all honesty. One hasn't been dealt a better hand than the other. Ultimately I think we'll be not far off Nuno's worst season, which isn't the greatest look in the world.

Wolves 2019 had a surprise factor . Wolves 2021 under Nuno surprised no one. Lage surprised many in the first three games and got nothing. That couldn’t continue but for me we have had a glimpse of how Lage wants us to play , ultimately. At no stage under Nuno did we attack or play as high under the first three Lage league games. Nuno was a great manager and achieved much here . However he was stubborn with his tactics and relied too much on a small nucleus. I don’t think Lage has those same reliance’s. That’s not disrespectful, just a valid observation. The dull as ditchwater thread said as much from numerous people. I really want Lage to succeed as he does seem to want to win and entertain which is great for me as a fan. He is certainly giving it a good try. Beat Newcastle at home is something Nuno never managed. Would that be progress.

 

[YoungWolf]

Progress isn’t based off just one game, as has been pretty much discussed on this thread today.

to progress from last season isn’t particularly hard as we weren’t particularly good or entertaining to watch.

if you take it back a season, I would be extremely surprised if Bruno got us near 60 points (and that isn’t me slagging him off). Nuno had us performing at (or close to) top six standard for most of that season.

I think 50 points would be half decent. If we can get a decent run of form going maybe slightly more.

 

[Jinky]

It is the managers job to instil confidence though. You can't divorce the two, particularly if you are saying it runs throughout the side

And I would argue that Bruno has increased their confidence and belief - hence the performances in the opening few matches, but that will only go so far when we’re still losing games of football. Again, that’s why the result was the main thing yesterday and why digging out the performance (like some on here are doing) is an odd reaction - particularly taking one game in isolation.

Raul’s post match interview was very telling yesterday. You could see the relief - but there was also a moment during his interview where Ruben walked past in the background and fist pumps towards the camera - look at the contrast between that and how exasperated he was in his interview after the Man Utd game. Yesterday’s result will naturally increase confidence. Hopefully we can follow it up with a win v Newcastle and get some momentum going. I’m pretty sure the performances would come back at that point too.

 

[prawnking]

I'd like to see what we're actually aiming at.

We've been open and expansive (relatively) and lost a lot, without scoring. I've seen us cross a lot but we only have one player who can head the ball. We've had the kind of reductive stuff we saw yesterday to nick a 1-0 which doesn't bother me but apparently it bothered others last season. We've had an awful home loss, seen plenty of them last year too.

I just want to know why we bothered, really. And why they're charging me more money to watch this, with the promise of charging me even more next year.

Fair enough.

I can't answer regarding the club's stated ambitions and whether they've been revised, but it's clear that they thought Nuno and his team were on a downward trajectory (not an unreasonable assessment) and wanted to change it up somewhat.

The fact they've done that in a bit of a half-arsed way is frustrating, but it's not the manager's fault.

I don't see what's wrong in being patient and seeing if him and the players can build something new, and worth the price of a ticket.

It's clear his ambition is to play in a way that's attacking and exciting, not easy to marry that with good results, even if you're an elite team, so there'll clearly be bumps along the road.

 

[PuntsWolf]

We seem to be confusing confidence with ability. Semedo didn’t miss because his confidence is low. He missed but he lacks ability in goal scoring positions.

 

[Derby Wolf]

Absolutely correct, and that’s why Cyber/Jasper was making a fair point on the previous page, despite people immediately taking the piss, about confidence within the side & with certain players.

Raul looked short of confidence when he pressed and won the ball back yesterday, was clear through on goal but didn’t want to shoot with his left foot so got tackled.

Semedo was short on confidence when he took his shot inside the first couple of minutes yesterday - Souness called him out on it and was spot on - he’s just thought “I’m not scoring here, I’ll just take the safe option and hit the target”, so instead of putting his laces through it and hitting it in the corner, he smacks it straight at the keeper (the only place the keeper saves it, tbf) - and that’s not the first time.

Donk and Coady were devoid of confidence the other night when they took their penalties. You could just tell immediately when they started walking up that they’d miss.

Confidence breeds results (despite the flippant response on the previous page) in the same way that a lack of confidence hinders results and certain moments within a match. It doesn’t mean tactics aren’t important too, obviously.

We are very much a team low on confidence, with players who need to shift the cloud/loser mentality that’s been a hangover from last season. There’s been glimpses of this happening this season, so we need to be very careful we don’t slip backwards again - which is why 3 points yesterday was vital.

I agree with parts of this but you interchange confidence with ability at points.

Raul came down to confidence because ordinarily hes a fairly reliable as a finisher.

Somedo wasn't suffering with a lack of confidence he's just an utterly shit finisher and whether it was his chance yesterday, the chances v Watford, the chance v Villa at home last season of any other he has consistently been a shit finisher and it can't be explained as a lack of confidence.

Neves had (probably) his worst 45 minutes in a Wolves shirt v Spurs the other night but ordinarily he's much more reliable so you could absolutely put it down to a loss of confidence/form/bad game.

A lack of confidence suggests a drop from normal levels, that is usually remedied by being rested, playing back into form, a move away or a new manager. Somedo has had most of them and he still can't finish.

 

[Carsy]

It goes hand in hand with a few things, manager being one.

I would say he has instilled confidence in the side given how they played first 3 games.

confidence theb potentially lost when we haven’t taken our chances. It then comes down to the manager to keep the confidence in the team.

it can also take abit of luck/circumstance. Sometimes a player just needs the ball to smack them on the arse and go on, and then things start going right.

hoping the floodgates open now for Raul

It is the managers job to instil confidence though. You can't divorce the two, particularly if you are saying it runs throughout the side

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

Lots of huffing and puffing yesterday from both teams, separated by one moment of quality. Southampton would not have scored if the game had lasted all day, they have not replaced Ings and they are going to struggle unless someone starts scoring for them.
Before yesterday we had the same problem - but that one goal is hopefully all that Raul needed, and a confident goalscorer is the difference between mid-table and a relegation fight.
Things didn't work for Pod, but at least he tried.
The more I see of Kilman/Coady/Saiss the more I worry, but conversely (and controversially it seems) the more I am ok with Marcal. I have not watched the Brentford game but otherwise he has done his job. A good defender with a lot of experience. More like Johnny than RAN.
No team plays the opposition off the park in every match. Even the greats have a poor run. But isn't winning when you play badly a good thing?

 

[Alan]

We weren't vintage Brazil yesterday but some of the comparisons in this thread are nuts to me.

Southampton were pretty rotten, which is why it was more important that we win, however we did it, than anything else. Playing pretty football is nice for a while but if we played tiki-taka all season but never scored, that football wouldn't be especially pretty anymore, would it?

Football can't be a beauty pageant all the time. Hopefully we can improve in both style and results but if we have to take things one at a time, I'd rather the results improve before the style than vice versa.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

It is the managers job to instil confidence though. You can't divorce the two, particularly if you are saying it runs throughout the side

People aren't robots though are they, you can't just click your fingers and give everyone unlimited confidence. Egos can be very fragile, people can rattle along just fine with a bit of smoke blown up their arse and then a tiny bump in the road sends them veering miles off course.

 

[Tony Towner]

Doesn't really matter, players without confidence lose games. I don't buy into what Jinky was saying anyway apart from Raul, but a team without confidence ultimately costs the manager his job, so it's beholden on him to fix it. Adama didn't go into that position because he's low on confidence, he went into it because he's Adama

 

[MARKakaJIM]

We seem to be confusing confidence with ability. Semedo didn’t miss because his confidence is low. He missed but he lacks ability in goal scoring positions.

I think in a case like that the two go hand in hand.

A more able finisher is more confident in that situation and so they try a higher risk effort that's more challenging for the keeper the save but also increases the chances of them putting it wide or over, they have confidence in their ability to be successful with the more difficult skill. Someone who isn't as confident in their ability to execute that skill either passes the buck or plays a safe option to avoid the worst of the embarrassment that could come their way.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Doesn't really matter, players without confidence lose games. I don't buy into what Jinky was saying anyway apart from Raul, but a team without confidence ultimately costs the manager his job, so it's beholden on him to fix it. Adama didn't go into that position because he's low on confidence, he went into it because he's Adama

There are ways and means to boost that confidence though.

Maybe you go through training all week with a particular way of playing and blow a load of smoke their arse telling them they've nailed, they might turn up on Saturday and might play with that swagger. Maybe the opposition makes it far more difficult than it had been in training and so their confidence wilts immediately, sending performance levels tumbling with it.

Or maybe he tries to grind out some results in a different way, see it the players grow in stature by gaining some results and then see if that breeds the confidence to make another attempt at the more ambitious style of play?

It's all a bit cyclical to me, confidence helps to foster success and vice versa, either one can help boost the other. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I think in a case like that the two go hand in hand.

A more able finisher is more confident in that situation and so they try a higher risk effort that's more challenging for the keeper the save but also increases the chances of them putting it wide or over, they have confidence in their ability to be successful with the more difficult skill. Someone who isn't as confident in their ability to execute that skill either passes the buck or plays a safe option to avoid the worst of the embarrassment that could come their way.

Well your supporting my point.

What is the basis for the confidence - ability. Not whether they’ve played well recently, won a few games or the managers said some nice things.

A more able finisher does better as they can take their eye off the ball and look at the goal whilst still maintaining control of the ball and their body. They then aim for a spot and hit it more often than not.

They’ve been in the situation 1000s of times before over numerous years. They’ve practiced it loads, they’ve succeeded loads, they have the muscle memory, the instinct.

Semedo is just looking for a good contact and like at any level, that normally means it’s going down or near the middle. Pretty much where the phrase “hit it too well” comes from.

 

[Jinky]

I think in a case like that the two go hand in hand.

A more able finisher is more confident in that situation and so they try a higher risk effort that's more challenging for the keeper the save but also increases the chances of them putting it wide or over, they have confidence in their ability to be successful with the more difficult skill. Someone who isn't as confident in their ability to execute that skill either passes the buck or plays a safe option to avoid the worst of the embarrassment that could come their way.

Essentially what I was getting at, except you explained it better.

I’m ok with people disagreeing with my opinion. But I feel Semedo just took the safe option because he hasn’t got the confidence in himself to tuck it in to the corner. Of course, it could in part be because he’s “a shit finisher”, but I think it’s more that he didn’t back himself.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Essentially what I was getting at, except you explained it better.

I’m ok with people disagreeing with my opinion. But I feel Semedo just took the safe option because he hasn’t got the confidence in himself to tuck it in to the corner. Of course, it could in part be because he’s “a shit finisher”, but I think it’s more that he didn’t back himself.

I think people are being a bit too black and white with the confidence/ability thing, it's rarely all one thing or the other. The two are deeply intertwined.

You think of a top finisher like Vardy say going through with the keeper and putting his foot through it more often than not. Say he gets it right 9 times out of 10, I doubt he gives a toss how stupid he looks when he skies one if he's got a decent chance of scoring the other 9. The success gives him more confidence and the confident approach gives more chance of success.

Then you look at someone like Semedo where he's maybe spannering 50% or more of his chances wide or over if he tries to be more ambitious. Can he handle looking stupid more often than he looks like scoring? So they go for safer options and further reduce their chances of scoring, further reducing confidence and you get a negative spiral.

 

[WolfMan]

I mean we've all got the ability to talk, sure we all do it everyday without thinking about it and hardly ever getting our words mixed up. Having the confidence to use that ability to talk to say a nice girl in a bar is a different thing. It's all very situation specific, having 30 thousand people watching and willing you to fuck up must be tremendous pressure.

You can have all the encouragement and training in the world, but until you do something and it goes well, you'll never really have the confidence. Similarly if you get flat out rejected or fail, your confidence is going to take a hit. There are some people who just don't give a shit and move onto the next one. I'm sure we've all met people like that at some stage, quite often they are pricks. There's probably an element of narcissism involved. I think the great finishers are probably wired a little differently psychologically to most, which makes them such a valuable commodity when it's combined with excellent ability.

 

[t3ch]

We weren't vintage Brazil yesterday but some of the comparisons in this thread are nuts to me.

Southampton were pretty rotten, which is why it was more important that we win, however we did it, than anything else. Playing pretty football is nice for a while but if we played tiki-taka all season but never scored, that football wouldn't be especially pretty anymore, would it?

Football can't be a beauty pageant all the time. Hopefully we can improve in both style and results but if we have to take things one at a time, I'd rather the results improve before the style than vice versa.

if football is the beautiful game, what would you call yesterdays match?

a 7 pinter?