Southampton 0-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[prawnking]

As I say, I don't care about us (relatively) shithousing a 1-0 away win. Everyone does that at some point, if you don't then you'll be in some trouble. And we didn't deserve to lose regardless, wasn't like they battered us and we scored from our only shot or anything.

It's the dichotomy between "yeah Nuno won some games but it wasn't very good, was it" and the differing reaction to yesterday that gets me. I think Nuno's work deserves a lot more respect than it gets.

That's just me though.

I really struggle to fathom how much more 'respect' for Nuno people want to see? This cultish vibe was bad enough when he managed us...

Nuno had a full season where a big chunk of the games were intentionally negative and caused eye bleeding, Bruno has had one game, away against a team that had already had three 0-0s this season.

How is that a fair or even relevant comparison?

 

[Tony Towner]

On a separate note, I now notice that 2 of the sides we didn't have any right expecting to get a point against are now in the bottom half of the table

 

[WolfMan]

As I say, I don't care about us (relatively) shithousing a 1-0 away win. Everyone does that at some point, if you don't then you'll be in some trouble. And we didn't deserve to lose regardless, wasn't like they battered us and we scored from our only shot or anything.

It's the dichotomy between "yeah Nuno won some games but it wasn't very good, was it" and the differing reaction to yesterday that gets me. I think Nuno's work deserves a lot more respect than it gets.

That's just me though.

I get what your saying and I agree to an extent. But I think alot of the criticism Nuno ended up getting was because we were shit, win, lose or draw. There has at least been some evidence this year of us playing some nice football. Some of the reaction to the losses where we played well might have been slightly over the top but it just shows how much people will forgive when they're watching a team playing more attractive football.

If performances like yesterday become the norm combined with poor results, I think Bruno will get plenty of stick just like Nuno did.

To lose Raul was huge, without him yesterday we probably would have been shit and drew or lost. I think Nuno probably finished about where he should have finished with a Raul less team in the end. If you could pick one player to remove from our team that would have the worst impact, I don't think many people would argue against it being Raul.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Bruno's reign so far (ignoring the League Cup, which anyone who knows it isn't 1988 anymore doesn't care about):

Three good (but insanely overblown) performances where we lost and didn't score
One average performance, won, we'll take that
Two shite performances, one loss (and a bad one at that), one win (due to a moment of magic and the opposition being shit)

I just don't see the great new dawn that others are seeing.

If and when Bruno Lage takes us to an FA Cup semi final, a Europa League quarter final and successive 7th placed finishes in the Premier League, he can have the same status as Nuno.

 

[prawnking]

If and when Bruno Lage takes us to an FA Cup semi final, a Europa League quarter final and successive 7th placed finishes in the Premier League, he can have the same status as Nuno.

He'd be some manager to have done that in, what, 8 games!

Who's saying he should have same 'status' as Nuno?

I'm just saying some people are extrapolating a hell of a lot from one game

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Much as they were when we lost every game and didn't score.

My major positive from where I was three months ago is that we don't look like some kind of Norwich-esque shambles that could concede five every game. Otherwise it's some good stuff and some bad stuff.

 

[t3ch]

think a lot of arguments going on in this thread against imaginary people

 

[Wilf Wolf]

I'm sure we'd be more effective with Mbappe up front too, unfortunately we have to judge the squad on the players we do have!

Surely we can also make a judgement how the squad would perform with a couple of realistic additions. Throwing Mbappe into the discussion is a bit silly.

 

[AndyWolves]

On a separate note, I now notice that 2 of the sides we didn't have any right expecting to get a point against are now in the bottom half of the table

There is a difference between expecting not to get anything and having "no right".

I guess hyperbole strikes again!

 

[Wilf Wolf]

If and when Bruno Lage takes us to an FA Cup semi final, a Europa League quarter final and successive 7th placed finishes in the Premier League, he can have the same status as Nuno.

That’s extremely unlikely given the resources likely to be afforded to Lage. Obviously he’s inherited a squad of good players but many are on a downward spiral, notably Moutinho, Boly, Saiss, and probably Jonny. I will always be a huge fan of Nuno but Lage can achieve the same status by achieving different things.

 

[prawnking]

Surely we can also make a judgement how the squad would perform with a couple of realistic additions. Throwing Mbappe into the discussion is a bit silly.

The point of the discussion was whether the squad could be categorised as weak as it is now, so my imaginary reference, however silly, is as relevant as yours? i.e. it's not

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Nuno finished 7th and made the FA Cup semi final when Costa and Cavaleiro were two players he had to call on quite often. I don't think anyone would take either of those over any of our current options, even with Neto out. We had Bennett at centre half too and had to skew the team to fit bloody Doherty in as all he can do is stand vaguely halfway up the pitch and trundle into the box, rather than play football.

It wasn't like we just handed him a top squad and they performed brilliantly by default.

Patricio (people keep telling me Sa is better, so...)

Bennett
Coady
Boly

Doherty
Neves
Moutinho (three years younger, I'll grant you)
Jonny

Costa
Jimenez
Jota

vs

Sa

Kilman
Coady
Saiss (he could pick Boly either side, he doesn't - that's his choice)

Semedo
Dendoncker (could pick Neves, didn't)
Moutinho
Marçal

Podence
Jimenez
Hwang

I don't think there's that much difference in all honesty. One hasn't been dealt a better hand than the other. Ultimately I think we'll be not far off Nuno's worst season, which isn't the greatest look in the world.

 

[Quirkafleeg]

We havent had an Adama meltdown yet so here goes....

Why didnt he fling his arms around shout like a mother fucker to get Raul to square it, he didnt want it. DISCUSS xx

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

We havent had an Adama meltdown yet so here goes....

Why didnt he fling his arms around shout like a mother fucker to get Raul to square it, he didnt want it. DISCUSS xx

He ran into a position where he couldn't be passed to, it was bizarre, he only had to hang back to the penalty spot and Raul could have found him. Looked like a player devoid of confidence to me.

 

[Carsy]

Nuno finished 7th and made the FA Cup semi final when Costa and Cavaleiro were two players he had to call on quite often. I don't think anyone would take either of those over any of our current options, even with Neto out. We had Bennett at centre half too and had to skew the team to fit bloody Doherty in as all he can do is stand vaguely halfway up the pitch and trundle into the box, rather than play football.

It wasn't like we just handed him a top squad and they performed brilliantly by default.

Patricio (people keep telling me Sa is better, so...)

Bennett
Coady
Boly

Doherty
Neves
Moutinho (three years younger, I'll grant you)
Jonny

Costa
Jimenez
Jota

vs

Sa

Kilman
Coady
Saiss (he could pick Boly either side, he doesn't - that's his choice)

Semedo
Dendoncker (could pick Neves, didn't)
Moutinho
Marçal

Podence
Jimenez
Hwang

I don't think there's that much difference in all honesty. One hasn't been dealt a better hand than the other. Ultimately I think we'll be not far off Nuno's worst season, which isn't the greatest look in the world.

Not a lot to be achieved with that comparison really? Times have changed. Playing different teams, different attitude in the camp (on a high following promotion and strengthening the squad in comparison to a manager being vocal about wanting more players abs not getting it),our style fairly unique to the prem at that time so going under the radar abit etc there are countless more factors you could bring in.

I dint think anyone is comparing there achievements. If they are, then it’s ridiculous Lage has been here 5 minutes.

 

[WsWolf]

Nuno finished 7th and made the FA Cup semi final when Costa and Cavaleiro were two players he had to call on quite often. I don't think anyone would take either of those over any of our current options, even with Neto out. We had Bennett at centre half too and had to skew the team to fit bloody Doherty in as all he can do is stand vaguely halfway up the pitch and trundle into the box, rather than play football.

It wasn't like we just handed him a top squad and they performed brilliantly by default.

Patricio (people keep telling me Sa is better, so...)

Bennett
Coady
Boly

Doherty
Neves
Moutinho (three years younger, I'll grant you)
Jonny

Costa
Jimenez
Jota

vs

Sa

Kilman
Coady
Saiss (he could pick Boly either side, he doesn't - that's his choice)

Semedo
Dendoncker (could pick Neves, didn't)
Moutinho
Marçal

Podence
Jimenez
Hwang

I don't think there's that much difference in all honesty. One hasn't been dealt a better hand than the other. Ultimately I think we'll be not far off Nuno's worst season, which isn't the greatest look in the world.

I'd take that version of Bennett over any centre half we have now, at least he could consistently defend to decent premier League standard.

 

[prawnking]

Nuno finished 7th and made the FA Cup semi final when Costa and Cavaleiro were two players he had to call on quite often. I don't think anyone would take either of those over any of our current options, even with Neto out. We had Bennett at centre half too and had to skew the team to fit bloody Doherty in as all he can do is stand vaguely halfway up the pitch and trundle into the box, rather than play football.

It wasn't like we just handed him a top squad and they performed brilliantly by default.

Patricio (people keep telling me Sa is better, so...)

Bennett
Coady
Boly

Doherty
Neves
Moutinho (three years younger, I'll grant you)
Jonny

Costa
Jimenez
Jota

vs

Sa

Kilman
Coady
Saiss (he could pick Boly either side, he doesn't - that's his choice)

Semedo
Dendoncker (could pick Neves, didn't)
Moutinho
Marçal

Podence
Jimenez
Hwang

I don't think there's that much difference in all honesty. One hasn't been dealt a better hand than the other. Ultimately I think we'll be not far off Nuno's worst season, which isn't the greatest look in the world.

I'm not sure where some of you are going with all this.

Saying one hasn't been dealt a better hand, when Nuno was given Mendes, Neves and Jota in the Championship and four years to build a squad is something else...

What's the end game to all this anyway? Nuno isn't coming back, the clock isn't being turned back, so what would please you?

 

[Carsy]

I'd take that version of Bennett over any centre half we have now, at least he could consistently defend to decent premier League standard.

I also loved his long throw. Can’t remember it ever really amounting to anything, but like us having corners it always got my hopes up!

 

[1986]

Just one note that can't be ignored .

6 GAMES IN - We have just conceded 5 goals - only 4 other teams in the league have conceded fewer .

Yes we clearly are not scoring enough , but if we assume that RAUL can only get better and others will find their shooting boots , then keeping a low goals count at the far side is a big plus , and a stat that a lot on here did not expect .

Lots to improve on without doubt , first 11 far from clear for instance , players not playing consistently , no midfield back up . I'll take what we have for now .
We'll need to pick up a fair few points between now and Nov 30th with deadly December on the horizon ( fixture wise ) .

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not sure where some of you are going with all this.

Saying one hasn't been dealt a better hand, when Nuno was given Mendes, Neves and Jota in the Championship and four years to build a squad is something else...

What's the end game to all this anyway? Nuno isn't coming back, the clock isn't being turned back, so what would please you?

I'd like to see what we're actually aiming at.

We've been open and expansive (relatively) and lost a lot, without scoring. I've seen us cross a lot but we only have one player who can head the ball. We've had the kind of reductive stuff we saw yesterday to nick a 1-0 which doesn't bother me but apparently it bothered others last season. We've had an awful home loss, seen plenty of them last year too.

I just want to know why we bothered, really. And why they're charging me more money to watch this, with the promise of charging me even more next year.