REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I think Labour have lost my vote even if they change their stance on Brexit. I'll be voting Green for the foreseeable future.

 

[AndyWolves]

Have a look at some of the interviews with Rory Stewart, my initial view is that he's someone who "gets it" and has a grasp on what brexit actually means

 

[Tredman]

Good, from Guido nobhead on twitter:

Hearing Times/YouGov poll tonight will be a shocker. Word is it is going to show LD 24%, BXP 22%, Lab 19%, Con 19%.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Good.

Labour deserve to be there.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Farage's best mate.

Not racist though.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I voted Green this time as I like some of their ethical policies
Green want remain
I want a soft brexit
I want to bloody the nose of Tory and Labour more
I couldnt vote Brexit party as its purely a no deal ticket IMHO
44.5% therefore are voting for a no deal brexit
In a referendum that offered me a choice between remain, soft and no deal I would still go soft first remain second. Exactly the same three years later, just utterley pissed off with both the main parties and their efforts.

 

[lemonjelly]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jun/01/brexit-too-complicated-for-referendum-says-jared-diamond

Brexit was too complex to be decided by referendum and should have been left in the hands of elected representatives, not voters, Jared Diamond has said....

Britain had “little experience” with national referendums before the 2016 vote, he said, having only held two: the 1975 vote to remain in the European common market, and the 2011 vote on the UK’s parliamentary voting system. However, he said, in 2016 Britain could have looked overseas for examples of best practice, including Wisconsin and California in the US, two states that regularly hold referendums, and Italy, which has held more than 70 national referendums since 1946. Some of these have included divisive social issues, such as divorce and abortion, key to shaping the national identity of the country at the heart of Catholicism.

“From these, we have experience – we know subjects that are suitable for referendum and not, and we know how to run a referendum and not,” he said. “Subjects that are suitable for referendum are issues of society values that do not involve complicated questions of economics.”...

Italy’s history of referendum questions were excellent, he said. “They were not complicated and Italians voted strongly to figure out: ‘who are we?’ But Brexit has the disadvantage: yes it involves national identity, something about which you feel strongly, but it also involves very complicated issues of economics. That’s a subject for which you elect representatives, representatives who will deal with these complications and crawl off to a corner to learn all this stuff. It’s not an issue to present to voters.”

Past referendums around the world had demonstrated the need for a decisive majority and a certain level of turnout, he said. “For important issues that involve change, it should be a decisive vote. You should not decide something with a 51.9% vote. In California, referendum with heavy fiscal consequences require 60 to 66% of voters. Why did Britain, the leading democracy, not look to other countries for models on how to hold a referendum?”

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

'Andrea Leadsom pledges managed no-deal Brexit in bid to lead party'.

Anybody who uses the phrase 'managed no-deal' is a cunt.

 

[Tony Towner]

Speaking of cunts.

https://news.sky.com/story/ann-widdecombe-science-may-produce-an-answer-to-homosexuality-11733559

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

That is fucking foul.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

This is where we are. Someone who was an anachronism 20 years and more ago, someone who has nothing in common at all with the vast majority of the population, someone who has nothing to say these days, someone who has just been a joke figure on terrible TV shows for a decade, someone with clearly abhorrent views that are totally out of step with modern society....all she has to do is shout "BREXIT" and people will vote for her.

I'll give man of the people Nige this though. He is at least ensuring that he's in with a puncher's chance of not being the most vile person in his "party" (which isn't actually a political party).

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

There seems to be a lack of outrage about the USA wanting to force their dodgy food standards on us and have access to our NHS as part of a post-Brexit trade deal. I thought Brexit was all about taking back control and the good old British spirit telling Johnny Foreigner where to go?

The tabloid headlines should be screaming at Trump to keep his tiny little hands off our precious NHS! If it had been the EU making demands like that the Brexiteers would have been apopleptic with rage. Anybody would think that Brexit isn't actually about what is best for the country after all and is about certain people's vested interests instead...

 

[Tony Towner]

Farage is bankrolled by Banks. Banks makes his money out of insurance, insurance is what stands to make a fortune from the NHS being taken apart, Banks makes a killing, Farage gets a big drink. It's not sophisticated, but as always with man of the people Nige, he's not challenged on it anywhere near enough. Most of the major insurance firms are American so Trump stands to do well out of it either directly or though 'gratitude' from his mates in the industry.

It's a Bannon driven ecosystem

 

[Johnny75]

Farage is bankrolled by Banks. Banks makes his money out of insurance, insurance is what stands to make a fortune from the NHS being taken apart, Banks makes a killing, Farage gets a big drink. It's not sophisticated, but as always with man of the people Nige, he's not challenged on it anywhere near enough. Most of the major insurance firms are American so Trump stands to do well out of it either directly or though 'gratitude' from his mates in the industry.

It's a Bannon driven ecosystem

If you and I can see this why isn't the media challenging these scumbags daily on it? Like the Huawei stuff is purely about protecting American firms like Cisco. It's so obvious.

It's always about money and it always has been. I'm staggered nobody in the media sees or addresses this.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Brexit long since ceased to be about perceived benefits for the public because er, there aren't any. All their guff about trade opportunities has been totally debunked and even Man of the People Nige doesn't bang on about immigration as much now, as a) we need immigration to make our economy work and b) pretty clear that non-EU immigration will just replace EU immigration, if anything. Bollocks about say, fishing is just inane drivel and even when challenged Brexiteers can't name specific EU laws (which we helped draft and pass, remember) that they'd like to repeal.

So now, the public argument is that we have to do Brexit because we had a vote once. Doesn't matter if any number of votes since indicate that it's not a very good idea and people don't want it, or how flawed said vote was, or how badly the period since has gone, or how bad the projections are, or how little of a plan we have. We just have to do it apparently or the country will collapse into the North Sea. In private of course it's about enriching already wealthy people and always has been.

The exception to this being Jeremy Corbyn who thinks if we leave the EU it'll be 1983 again and he can run the country as he would have done then.

 

[Tony Towner]

Looks like the TIGys will be gone tomorrow. For a day they looked like they had a chance to be a viable social democratic option then they let remainer Tories in and were doomed from then onwards.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I think they could have made a one off point in the EU elections with proper campaigning but they totally ballsed that up.

Never going to get a proper centrist message out long term with Allen and Soubry involved. Horrible austerity apologists, even if I do agree with them on Brexit. Their general politics are fucking dreadful, get out of my face.

Allen also voted for invoking A50, she's very good at saying how terrible the Tory hierarchy are then voting for it anyway.

 

[Tony Towner]

I think they got confused by their message from day 2. There is a decent proportion of the electorate who would vote for a New Labour style party which is where their opportunity lay. Once they decided to go down the route they did their appeal disappeared.

 

[arklowolf]

Have a look at some of the interviews with Rory Stewart, my initial view is that he's someone who "gets it" and has a grasp on what brexit actually means

Do ya think he's sexy?.....

Sorry, wrong Stewart.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I think they got confused by their message from day 2. There is a decent proportion of the electorate who would vote for a New Labour style party which is where their opportunity lay. Once they decided to go down the route they did their appeal disappeared.

The longer this ridiculous stance from Corbyn goes on, the more I'm convinced that Labour will split.

The 1983 Politburo will not last very long.

A party led by Watson and/or Starmer - I might look at coming back.