REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Siggy]

A "no platform" agenda against a man who has been on Question Time 33 times is an interesting take.

He says racist things and I will call him a racist.

That's my point, people are moaning that he is on QT too often, so how often is acceptable in your eyes especially given that things are very much biased towards remain on the vast majority of QT panels.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/04/10/its-official-question-time-is-a-remainer-stronghold/

So if NF appears less then its even more biased.....you see where im going with this?

As for the racism part, you can call anyone you like racist but it really devalues the real fight against racism when you believe that water is racist.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...man_hosts_woke_support_group_on_bbc_show.html

 

[Johnny75]

Man of the people is already on record as saying the NHS should move to an insurance based system (his mate Aron Banks owns an Insurance company, surely this is purely coincidental?)

“I think we are going to have to move to an insurance-based system of healthcare. Frankly, I would feel more comfortable that my money would return value if I was able to do that through the market place of an insurance company.”

https://brexitcentral.com/if-the-br...-should-drop-its-shrink-the-state-philosophy/

I don't think anybody on here would accuse me of being a screaming leftie and there are a good number of Tories who think the NHS should not be privatised so this would put Man of the people to the right of all of us. That would not be popular with his voters but no doubt he would spin it to say it was the forrin types using the NHS and killing the resources for the working class. And people would buy that shite too.

 

[SLA]

Slow day so thought I'd take up the Siggy Challenge and watch the whole of the Farage interview - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht_HYwZRR7k

Farage is doing the impossible here - making Piers Morgan look like a reasonable, tolerant and compassionate human being. Proper through-the-looking-glass stuff.

 

[Johnny75]

It should be noted we wouldn't get a good trade deal with the US. It's the same mindset that people think we would get £350m back a week to put into our NHS.

It isn't going to happen.

 

[Sniffer]

A good trade agreement with the US would strengthen our position with the EU, even the possibility of one should have Merkel and co worried.

I'd be interested to know how it would strengthen our position and why the EU would be worried. We can't sign any deal with the USA until we are out anyway and these things tend to take several years. How will the UK be able to negotiate better trade deals with the rest of the world when their market is far smaller than the EU block. Lets face it everyday items that can be exported to the EU market from the UK now will not be traded with the Asia as they can be produced cheaper in Asia.

The way I see it is currently far easier to trade in Europe than the US. Whilst we're in this political limbo, EU buyers of UK products are looking to source elsewhere if they haven't already done so. Importers of goods from the EU would still be requiring to purchase them from the EU as the UK doesn't have the manufacturing base. Cheap imports from the US will no doubt mean that tariffs are added to the export of UK goods to the EU as they wouldn't want US products being sourced more cheaply from the UK entering the EU market.

I really can't see an upside unless your business is importing goods from the rest of the world and tariffs will be lowered.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

A good trade agreement with the US would strengthen our position with the EU, even the possibility of one should have Merkel and co worried. The NHS however is my biggest worry with current politics, joking aside I do believe some things should be ran by socialism rather than capitalism, both healthcare and drugs are areas I believe this to be important. I think NF will change his stance on this when they release a manifesto as anything other than support for our NHS will remove my vote instantly.

Having said that our NHS has already been partially privatized and we have to ask if the damage is reversible?

for me, "partially privatised" bears no resemblance to letting Trump anywhere near the NHS. I wouldn't let him feed my cats, they would proaly bite the sad bastard anyway.

 

[lemonjelly]

I don't think anybody on here would accuse me of being a screaming leftie.

I would, but only because I wanted to get under your skin...

In other news, the irony of his initials being NF has only just hit me.

 

[Tredman]

I would, but only because I wanted to get under your skin...

In other news, the irony of his initials being NF has only just hit me.

It hit the 'absolutely not racist Farage, no way' a long time ago

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...it-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html

 

[Siggy]

I'd be interested to know how it would strengthen our position and why the EU would be worried. We can't sign any deal with the USA until we are out anyway and these things tend to take several years. How will the UK be able to negotiate better trade deals with the rest of the world when their market is far smaller than the EU block. Lets face it everyday items that can be exported to the EU market from the UK now will not be traded with the Asia as they can be produced cheaper in Asia.

The way I see it is currently far easier to trade in Europe than the US. Whilst we're in this political limbo, EU buyers of UK products are looking to source elsewhere if they haven't already done so. Importers of goods from the EU would still be requiring to purchase them from the EU as the UK doesn't have the manufacturing base. Cheap imports from the US will no doubt mean that tariffs are added to the export of UK goods to the EU as they wouldn't want US products being sourced more cheaply from the UK entering the EU market.

I really can't see an upside unless your business is importing goods from the rest of the world and tariffs will be lowered.

I am no expert but we can agree a deal but not implement it until we are out. If we are looking at deals on products that are currently favourable from the EU but now potentially have a better deal in the US it puts pressure on EU member states to push for a FTA with the UK.

I buy considerable amounts of non woven material but the US is a major manufacturer of this type of product. So I am keeping a close eye on things from my perspective.

If we are in a stated position of no deal should we reach the 31st of October and a deal is already agreed with the US in that event our hand at the negotiation table is strengthened.

If we have no other options and have to buy everything from the EU they hold all the cards and we are in trouble.

Again I'm no expert here as I realise its incredibly complex.

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

 

[Kenny]

"Nigel Farage faces a European Parliament ban after he was set a 24 hour deadline to explain why he allegedly failed to declare almost half a million pounds in gifts from Brexiteer tycoon Arron Banks."

Response from Nige
'“What is this but an EU kangaroo court where I am given 24 hours notice about allegations picked up from press stories. I will not be attending at such short notice.

 

[visage]

I am no expert but we can agree a deal but not implement it until we are out. If we are looking at deals on products that are currently favourable from the EU but now potentially have a better deal in the US it puts pressure on EU member states to push for a FTA with the UK.

I buy considerable amounts of non woven material but the US is a major manufacturer of this type of product. So I am keeping a close eye on things from my perspective.

If we are in a stated position of no deal should we reach the 31st of October and a deal is already agreed with the US in that event our hand at the negotiation table is strengthened.

If we have no other options and have to buy everything from the EU they hold all the cards and we are in trouble.

Again I'm no expert here as I realise its incredibly complex.

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

Sure. I get that you can see benefits in your barrow area if commerce, but you seem to be extrapolating to all of the UKs output.

Brexit will mean that we are no longer negotiating as a powerful collective but as a diminished minor country.

When Trump talks of his eagerness to deal with the UK, its the attitude of a lion eager to deal with a gazelle...

 

[visage]

"Nigel Farage faces a European Parliament ban after he was set a 24 hour deadline to explain why he allegedly failed to declare almost half a million pounds in gifts from Brexiteer tycoon Arron Banks."

Response from Nige
'“What is this but an EU kangaroo court where I am given 24 hours notice about allegations picked up from press stories. I will not be attending at such short notice.

He's more than welcome to resign. After all why remain a member of such a terrible institution....

 

[Siggy]

Sure. I get that you can see benefits in your barrow area if commerce, but you seem to be extrapolating to all of the UKs output.

Brexit will mean that we are no longer negotiating as a powerful collective but as a diminished minor country.

When Trump talks of his eagerness to deal with the UK, its the attitude of a lion eager to deal with a gazelle...

Memories of the wilderbeasts on spitting image come to mind and unless we get some decent negotiators on board you could well be right. Trump is making no secret of what he wants to do with our NHS and that is going to make him unpopular with the small minority that have any kind of respect for him. I wouldn't want to try and negotiate with him that's for certain.

I was thinking more along the lines of utilizing any potential deal with the US as leverage to put pressure on the member states who would hopefully in turn put pressure on EU negotiators to get something done. There are some things the US can most certainly not replace, Italian wine being a very good starting point!

If we can get a FTA with the EU then I don't believe it will be the disaster some are making it out to be but we need leverage of some kind to make that happen and taking the stance that we are leaving on the 31st (even if it isn't true) is a must.

Meanwhile the exchange rate worsens just as I need to buy euros pfff.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Memories of the wilderbeasts on spitting image come to mind and unless we get some decent negotiators on board you could well be right. Trump is making no secret of what he wants to do with our NHS and that is going to make him unpopular with the small minority that have any kind of respect for him. I wouldn't want to try and negotiate with him that's for certain.

I was thinking more along the lines of utilizing any potential deal with the US as leverage to put pressure on the member states who would hopefully in turn put pressure on EU negotiators to get something done. There are some things the US can most certainly not replace, Italian wine being a very good starting point!

If we can get a FTA with the EU then I don't believe it will be the disaster some are making it out to be but we need leverage of some kind to make that happen and taking the stance that we are leaving on the 31st (even if it isn't true) is a must.

Meanwhile the exchange rate worsens just as I need to buy euros pfff.

There's often a big oversight with this sort of thinking in regards to pressuring the EU. Whilst we import a huge volume from the EU and it's value is vast taken as a whole, it's as though people overlook or perhaps don't realise that sum is then divided into considerably smaller chunks for each member state we trade with. So whatever £Xbn deficit the UK would end up with as result of a no deal Brexit is absolute the EU lump ends up as a much more manageable €Xbn/>27 to each member. It'll be a relative irrelevance for many of them, Italy loses a little of it's wine export market, Germany it's car sales, etc. but then the UK has to bare the cumulative effect of all these exchanges on it's own.

The difference the any individual member state is so neglible in comparison to the effect it'll have on the UK that it's mental to be thinking that you can some how scare them into changing their tune, the UK will always be worse off than them as a result.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The only reason a deal with the States would suit me would be if I was ordering a couple of custom shop Gibsons and Jacksons. Would save me hundreds.

However, this side of a lottery win, it's pretty fucking unlikely!

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

There's often a big oversight with this sort of thinking in regards to pressuring the EU. Whilst we import a huge volume from the EU and it's value is vast taken as a whole, it's as though people overlook or perhaps don't realise that sum is then divided into considerably smaller chunks for each member state we trade with. So whatever £Xbn deficit the UK would end up with as result of a no deal Brexit is absolute the EU lump ends up as a much more manageable €Xbn/>27 to each member. It'll be a relative irrelevance for many of them, Italy loses a little of it's wine export market, Germany it's car sales, etc. but then the UK has to bare the cumulative effect of all these exchanges on it's own.

The difference the any individual member state is so neglible in comparison to the effect it'll have on the UK that it's mental to be thinking that you can some how scare them into changing their tune, the UK will always be worse off than them as a result.

THIS

ALL OF THIS

Mark has nailed a very serious point there.

 

[Tony Towner]

Linked to Mark's point is that somehow we won't buy French or German cars or go on holiday to Spain or Greece, we will it'll just cost us more / come with a degree of inconvenience.

 

[Johnny75]

It's almost as if we're better off being in a large trading bloc.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Linked to Mark's point is that somehow we won't buy French or German cars or go on holiday to Spain or Greece, we will it'll just cost us more / come with a degree of inconvenience.

I know a very large transport company that has ordered DAFs over Volvos for exactly that reason, well, tariffs.

 

[Tony Towner]

I'm missing something then as isn't one Dutch and the other Swedish?