REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Premier Quality]

Looks like the TIGys will be gone tomorrow. For a day they looked like they had a chance to be a viable social democratic option then they let remainer Tories in and were doomed from then onwards.

It’s a real shame - we could really do with a more centrist party, but they’ve really fucked it up badly

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Soubry (for instance) isn't a centrist though. She's a fervent believer in Osborneomics (which any A Level Economics student will tell you is Ben Foster levels of stupid).

You can't square that circle.

If she and Allen want to form their own "Superficially Nice Tories" party then they're welcome to do so.

 

[Premier Quality]

Soubrys just horrible anyway. I don’t have a problem with Allen though, she’s bland enough. Omuna is okish - there are a lot worse than those two.

A fresh party that’s not controlled by Corbyn or May should hvd had a great chance of doing something, it’s a shame.

 

[visage]

Brexit long since ceased to be about perceived benefits for the public because er, there aren't any. All their guff about trade opportunities has been totally debunked and even Man of the People Nige doesn't bang on about immigration as much now, as a) we need immigration to make our economy work and b) pretty clear that non-EU immigration will just replace EU immigration, if anything. Bollocks about say, fishing is just inane drivel and even when challenged Brexiteers can't name specific EU laws (which we helped draft and pass, remember) that they'd like to repeal.

So now, the public argument is that we have to do Brexit because we had a vote once. Doesn't matter if any number of votes since indicate that it's not a very good idea and people don't want it, or how flawed said vote was, or how badly the period since has gone, or how bad the projections are, or how little of a plan we have. We just have to do it apparently or the country will collapse into the North Sea. In private of course it's about enriching already wealthy people and always has been.

The exception to this being Jeremy Corbyn who thinks if we leave the EU it'll be 1983 again and he can run the country as he would have done then.

Im not sure thats it. I think Brexit has become a cypher for anti establishment feeling.

'The People' voted for brexit, and now metropolitan liberal elites and politicians are trying to take it from 'The People'. Its doesnt even matter any more what Brexit is. Brexit could be feeding kids arsenic for all it matters. The people want to feed kids arsenic, and snooty doctors with their degrees and 'peer reviewed science' think they know better.

Theres a phrase I love, and its apt here - you cant reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into. Brexit makes no rational sense. But pointing that out is pointless, because it wasnt a decision based on reason.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I don't get what the "metropolitan elites" are though. This seems to change all the time.

I'm sure at some point you and I fit in there. I'm from New Invention (mostly) and you're from Penn (more or less). I mean how metropolitan can you get. I think it boils down to "people who think Brexit is a load of fucking shit". I'm happy to be part of that.

Liberal with a small l though please, I don't want to be associated with a party that had an evangelical Christian in charge as recently as 2017.

 

[SLA]

Im not sure thats it. I think Brexit has become a cypher for anti establishment feeling.

'The People' voted for brexit, and now metropolitan liberal elites and politicians are trying to take it from 'The People'. Its doesnt even matter any more what Brexit is. Brexit could be feeding kids arsenic for all it matters. The people want to feed kids arsenic, and snooty doctors with their degrees and 'peer reviewed science' think they know better.

Theres a phrase I love, and its apt here - you cant reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into. Brexit makes no rational sense. But pointing that out is pointless, because it wasnt a decision based on reason.

Slightly OT, but pretty much literally happening with the anti-vaxxers, except they like to feed other people's kids arsenic too. All of a piece though -fairly sure the Venn diagram of Brexit, anti-vax, climate change denial would just be one big circle.

 

[Premier Quality]

Slightly OT, but pretty much literally happening with the anti-vaxxers, except they like to feed other people's kids arsenic too. All of a piece though -fairly sure the Venn diagram of Brexit, anti-vax, climate change denial would just be one big circle.

I’m fairly sure that’s just echo chamber bullshit tbh, feeding into your ‘I don’t like brexit, so I’ll put all the other things I don’t like in the same post’. Outlook, based purely on hanging around with other people who are outspoken in the same way as me.

Personally, I think that remoaners are racist, self harming, Birmingham city fans who like dogging and chubby brown.

Stupid either way, right?

 

[SLA]

I’m fairly sure that’s just echo chamber bullshit tbh, feeding into your ‘I don’t like brexit, so I’ll put all the other things I don’t like in the same post’. Outlook, based purely on hanging around with other people who are outspoken in the same way as me.

Personally, I think that remoaners are racist, self harming, Birmingham city fans who like dogging and chubby brown.

Stupid either way, right?

I think you're right about remoaners. That certainly describes me to a tee - especially if by the lack of capital letters on chubby brown you're suggesting my ideal dogging partner.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ends-ann-widdecombe-over-gay-therapy-comments

This fucking cunt.

"But Muslims".

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

He's a massive cunt. She's a massive cunt. The school protestors are cunts too. So many cunts.

 

[Siggy]

I would suggest watching the whole interview the Guardian have (as expected) only put the parts in that suit their narrative.

Nige (man of the people [emoji12]) called for personal tolerance initially for Christians, then all religious groups and they only stopped hounding him on it when he mentioned Muslim's (shock)

I haven't seen AW's comments but I seriously doubt it was said as printed or she would be in far bigger trouble.

So who are we mad at here AW or NF?

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'd rather eat a cyanide pie washed down with a sulphuric acid beer than listen to a Nigel Farage interview in its entirety, thanks all the same.

 

[SLA]

I would suggest watching the whole interview the Guardian have (as expected) only put the parts in that suit their narrative.

Nige (man of the people [emoji12]) called for personal tolerance initially for Christians, then all religious groups and they only stopped hounding him on it when he mentioned Muslim's (shock)

I haven't seen AW's comments but I seriously doubt it was said as printed or she would be in far bigger trouble.

So who are we mad at here AW or NF?

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

https://news.sky.com/video/science-may-produce-an-answer-to-homosexuality-11733547
Take from that what you will.

 

[Johnny75]

I would suggest watching the whole interview the Guardian have (as expected) only put the parts in that suit their narrative.

Nige (man of the people [emoji12]) called for personal tolerance initially for Christians, then all religious groups and they only stopped hounding him on it when he mentioned Muslim's (shock)

I haven't seen AW's comments but I seriously doubt it was said as printed or she would be in far bigger trouble.

So who are we mad at here AW or NF?

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

AW's comments in a nutshell are that she thinks science could come up with an answer to being gay and that science could create an answer to going from gay to straight. The media have, correctly in my opinion, assumed that she thinks being gay can be 'cured'.

She has commented in the past that she is against any sort of gay rights and is religiously tied to the teaching of the bible.

As Farage has backed her in calling for religious tolerance he becomes hypocritical, especially as he criticises a section of Muslims for having worse(?) beliefs. By not acknowledging that being gay is not a condition or disease to be cured or changed he has lurched into a non-secular position which we in the UK do not hold.

Those particular comments are not religious freedom or expression but downright offensive and he is sounding more and more like a far right fascist for defending them.

For not dismissing those views he's a cunt, Widdicombe is a fucking deplorable cunt and people that like Farage and his man of the people schtick can get to fucking fuck and when they think they've fucked off enough they can fuck off some more. I don't want them anywhere near my country or people in general.

 

[Siggy]

Thanks for the link SLA, I have watched it and its a really really difficult one. We have to be careful that we don't censor speech, it's dangerous to do that after all who decides who and what is censored? Sure I could see a case for jumping all over someone for saying gayness is wrong or an illness but it isn't what she is saying here. Whilst I can understand where she is coming from she is being very insensitive to the subject.

And again shes a member of NF's party so this seems to be the latest tactic to smear him, something AW said years ago that she wasn't challenged anywhere near as harshly as a tory (slight assumption there given that its being made into a larger issue now)

In the broader context take a look at this interview where there is a debate initially on freedom of speech;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mufh9oKYf5Y

I see a considerable amount of dialogue here that is offensive, but who is it offensive to and who's right to be offended is more important than the other?

I get that quite a lot of you hate Farage, but many of the things that are posted are not source material and after checking the material has been altered by journalist to suit an agenda, I also think this is dangerous (the right does this too)

 

[SLA]

Who's arguing for censorship? She got to say what she said on an internationally available broadcaster - she's hardly being censored. People are expressing their view on what she said and on what Farage has said in defence of her. I haven't seen anyone say they should be banned from doing so.

 

[Siggy]

Who's arguing for censorship? She got to say what she said on an internationally available broadcaster - she's hardly being censored. People are expressing their view on what she said and on what Farage has said in defence of her. I haven't seen anyone say they should be banned from doing so.

Farage didn't defend her view I think its important to state that, he said he wouldn't take a position on it as it is her religious right. The discussion then revolved around the fact that Nige mentioned muslims and how much of an idiot he is for doing so.

Back to the reasons behind my point,

The initial post from the guardian had been altered to suit an agenda - control of speech (this is a problem for both sides I should add)
The debate was swiftly moved on when muslim's were mentioned - control of speech/censorship (its live they cant do much else)

These interviews are always done in a way to trip someone up, to make them say things they don't mean under pressure. What I am saying is its not really an unbiased interview where all views are challenged its a Russian collusion style witch hunt against someone whose popularity is on the increase.

The ultimate aim here is to de-platform Nige, I have seen lots of call for it pretty much everywhere including here.

Now I could be jumping to conclusions here but that's how it appears to me.

I will change my mind if the evidence proves otherwise.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

so it's out of the hands of Europe, and into the hands (NHS included) of Trump.
someone has got to be joking here, if the alternative to Europe is Trump's America, which is the fastest way to Brussells on our knees?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

A "no platform" agenda against a man who has been on Question Time 33 times is an interesting take.

He says racist things and I will call him a racist.

 

[Siggy]

so it's out of the hands of Europe, and into the hands (NHS included) of Trump.
someone has got to be joking here, if the alternative to Europe is Trump's America, which is the fastest way to Brussells on our knees?

A good trade agreement with the US would strengthen our position with the EU, even the possibility of one should have Merkel and co worried. The NHS however is my biggest worry with current politics, joking aside I do believe some things should be ran by socialism rather than capitalism, both healthcare and drugs are areas I believe this to be important. I think NF will change his stance on this when they release a manifesto as anything other than support for our NHS will remove my vote instantly.

Having said that our NHS has already been partially privatized and we have to ask if the damage is reversible?