REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Tom Hark]

We'd already got ourselves a pretty good deal from the EU though (or at least, we'd got ourselves loads of special treatment, not that I'd particularly say that all of the opt outs were good) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union

Plus we were involved in the creation of all EU regulations/laws or whatever and our parliament then ratified them.

I just don't see the sovereignty argument.

Personally, I have a general sense of unease that we have ceded control to Brussels in many areas, but that might just be an age thing. Those born after 1970, and certainly millennials, would perhaps be more used to/tolerant of the way things are now. So far as the referendum/Brexit/whatever is concerned, it's less about facts than perceptions, and the perception had been building for a few years that millions of chancers from the EU (plus all the other migrants they were letting in, plus all the Commonwealth migrants who are nothing to do with the EU but let's lump them in anyway cos they're Muslims) were coming here and taking all the jobs and draining the country. Never mind that that wasn't what was happening - that's how the media who run the country spun it, and even among those with a brain cell or two there were many concerned that it could[/] happen and that the EU regs made us powerless to stop it. That's when govt should have started making noises about controls and generally not kow-towing to Brussels (and I don't think we'd have stood alone, because there is a germ of legitimacy to such concerns). As many have said, the EU now isn't the one we signed up to, but that's a reason to push for change, not flounce off in a strop.

 

[Nando]

Fear not, Gove, Fox, Mordaunt, Grayling and Leadsom are forming a working group to rewrite the deal. Quite the dream team of complete and utter cunts there.

 

[arklowolf]

Fear not, Gove, Fox, Mordaunt, Grayling and Leadsom are forming a working group to rewrite the deal. Quite the dream team of complete and utter $#@!s there.

Maybe Labour could get some of their 'big hitters' to do the same, say Abbott, Long-Bailey, Umuna, Jess Phillips and Thornberry. Bunch of freaks.

 

[Tredman]

Maybe Labour could get some of their 'big hitters' to do the same, say Abbott, Long-Bailey, Umuna, Jess Phillips and Thornberry. Bunch of freaks.

Yeah women and black people in politics, how very fucking dare they, eh?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Yeah women and black people in politics, how very $#@!ing dare they, eh?

You cannot be serious! Abbott is abysmal for starters! Abbott is surely a tory plant!

 

[SLA]

Personally, I have a general sense of unease that we have ceded control to Brussels in many areas, but that might just be an age thing. Those born after 1970, and certainly millennials, would perhaps be more used to/tolerant of the way things are now. So far as the referendum/Brexit/whatever is concerned, it's less about facts than perceptions, and the perception had been building for a few years that millions of chancers from the EU (plus all the other migrants they were letting in, plus all the Commonwealth migrants who are nothing to do with the EU but let's lump them in anyway cos they're Muslims) were coming here and taking all the jobs and draining the country. Never mind that that wasn't what was happening - that's how the media who run the country spun it, and even among those with a brain cell or two there were many concerned that it could[/] happen and that the EU regs made us powerless to stop it. That's when govt should have started making noises about controls and generally not kow-towing to Brussels (and I don't think we'd have stood alone, because there is a germ of legitimacy to such concerns). As many have said, the EU now isn't the one we signed up to, but that's a reason to push for change, not flounce off in a strop.

I suppose my argument for that would be that we were instrumental in creating those freedom of movement rules and they were all voted through our own parliament. Now there might be a fair argument to say that was the wrong thing to do (not one I'd personally agree with), but to blame it on the institution of the EU doesn't make sense. The EU is a collection of sovereign nations coming to together to make decisions in their collective interests.
The UK was a huge player in the EU and as one of the bigger economies and more populous nations, wielded a lot influence. Whatever was done, we did to ourselves.

And it was the "will of the people" back in 1974 that we go down this road by a margin of 67% to 33% so considerably more legitimate than this latest shitfest.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Personally, I have a general sense of unease that we have ceded control to Brussels in many areas, but that might just be an age thing. Those born after 1970, and certainly millennials, would perhaps be more used to/tolerant of the way things are now. So far as the referendum/Brexit/whatever is concerned, it's less about facts than perceptions, and the perception had been building for a few years that millions of chancers from the EU (plus all the other migrants they were letting in, plus all the Commonwealth migrants who are nothing to do with the EU but let's lump them in anyway cos they're Muslims) were coming here and taking all the jobs and draining the country. Never mind that that wasn't what was happening - that's how the media who run the country spun it, and even among those with a brain cell or two there were many concerned that it could[/] happen and that the EU regs made us powerless to stop it. That's when govt should have started making noises about controls and generally not kow-towing to Brussels (and I don't think we'd have stood alone, because there is a germ of legitimacy to such concerns). As many have said, the EU now isn't the one we signed up to, but that's a reason to push for change, not flounce off in a strop.

I was in London last weekend and there is very noticeable change in accent serving at hotels and in bars and restaurants.

 

[Tom Hark]

I was in London last weekend and there is very noticeable change in accent serving at hotels and in bars and restaurants.

I imagine quite a few of them will be self-service before long. And the NHS are looking into self-powered syringe dispensing trolleys, I believe.*











* Not really.

 

[Penk Wolf]

I imagine quite a few of them will be self-service before long. And the NHS are looking into self-powered syringe dispensing trolleys, I believe.*











* Not really.

It was just an observation. We will certainly have major issues if EU citizens all go back home.

Was talking to a transport manager of a very large fleet (circa 1000 trucks) and he reckons about 60% of his Eastern European drivers are planning on returning home.

 

[Johnny75]

Thats not quite right though is it Johnny?

People voted to be

Out of the union
Out of single market
Out of customs union

What is fucked up is that there is a complete impasse from all sides making that happen. Thats the mess. And Ireland is the biggest sticking point.

So actually , a government called a referendum offering an outcome that was impossible to achieve? Thats probably the summary.

Nope, you're wrong and couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

It feels great to type that, it really does.

Brexit voters are very good at trying to rewrite why people have done this, that and the other but when hard facts are placed in front of Brexit voters it all turns to ratshit.

Exhibit A is that cunt on the video.

 

[arklowolf]

Thick and shockingly racist.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

There's only you that has brought Diane Abbott into the discussion through a quick round of "But Labour".

 

[Tom Hark]

I suppose my argument for that would be that we were instrumental in creating those freedom of movement rules and they were all voted through our own parliament. Now there might be a fair argument to say that was the wrong thing to do (not one I'd personally agree with), but to blame it on the institution of the EU doesn't make sense. The EU is a collection of sovereign nations coming to together to make decisions in their collective interests.
The UK was a huge player in the EU and as one of the bigger economies and more populous nations, wielded a lot influence. Whatever was done, we did to ourselves.

And it was the "will of the people" back in 1974 that we go down this road by a margin of 67% to 33% so considerably more legitimate than this latest shitfest.

We shot our own foot, but, unlike inadvisedly passed internal legislation, we can't now apply the bandage of repeal. That's what annoys people, I think. We're an arrogant nation, used to getting our own way and setting our own agenda. As you say, we did indeed wield influence. We ought to have used it to avoid this situation.

The 70s EC was very different from the EU today, as evidenced by the fact that, then, the Yes campaign's main support came from the Tories while the nationalist parties all wanted to come out. (Labour, as usual, couldn't make its mind up.) I voted Yes then, and I think we'd be better off remaining now, but I'm not at all sure I'd buy into the current arrangements if the UK weren't a member.

 

[Jolemai]

Thick and shockingly racist.

You never told us how your 20 minutes as UKIP leader went...?

 

[arklowolf]

There's only you that has brought Diane Abbott into the discussion through a quick round of "But Labour".

Guilty m'lud. It was I that caused her to rear her ugly head. Corbs has been gagging her, so I thought I'd put things back into perspective. I wont mention her again as I know she upsets people of all political hues.

Seriously though, no one can seriously imagine Corbs and his cronies would have been able to put together any sort of plan to deal with leaving the EU can they?? They've had two years of doing nothing and still haven't come up with anything substantial.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Steve Barclay new Brexit Secretary (not that it matters, because as far as the EU are concerned, the deal is done). I'd literally never heard of him until five minutes ago.

I wonder what could have qualified him for this role?

Barclay was named by Conservative Home as one of a minority of loyal Conservative backbench MPs not to have voted against the government in any significant rebellions.

Ah, now it makes sense.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Guilty m'lud. It was I that caused her to rear her ugly head. Corbs has been gagging her, so I thought I'd put things back into perspective. I wont mention her again as I know she upsets people of all political hues.

Seriously though, no one can seriously imagine Corbs and his cronies would have been able to put together any sort of plan to deal with leaving the EU can they?? They've had two years of doing nothing and still haven't come up with anything substantial.

Personally? No, not really. But then I haven't been a Labour voter for a long time. Segundo Castillo was still a Wolves player last time I fell into that bracket.

 

[arklowolf]

You never told us how your 20 minutes as UKIP leader went...?

I'm apolitical, have only voted twice in my life, once for Major once for Ahern. Got that wrong on both counts.

 

[SLA]

We shot our own foot, but, unlike inadvisedly passed internal legislation, we can't now apply the bandage of repeal. That's what annoys people, I think. We're an arrogant nation, used to getting our own way and setting our own agenda. As you say, we did indeed wield influence. We ought to have used it to avoid this situation.

The 70s EC was very different from the EU today, as evidenced by the fact that, then, the Yes campaign's main support came from the Tories while the nationalist parties all wanted to come out. (Labour, as usual, couldn't make its mind up.) I voted Yes then, and I think we'd be better off remaining now, but I'm not at all sure I'd buy into the current arrangements if the UK weren't a member.

Well, the evidence on EU migration suggests it's a net economic benefit to the nation and I'd argue a cultural one too. But other people will have different experiences to mine so I don't claim to be representative of anything.

I can't be arsed to find it now but I've posted on here before something about the founding principles of the EC/EU. They were very clear that its original intention was very much political and borne out of the experiences of the wars of the first half of the 20th C. The mainland Europeans I speak to seem very comfortable with that concept. Clearly a lot of people in the UK aren't.

 

[Parkins left foot]

I can't be arsed to find it now but I've posted on here before something about the founding principles of the EC/EU. They were very clear that its original intention was very much political and borne out of the experiences of the wars of the first half of the 20th C.

I don't doubt that though the Government of the day wasn't prepared to share that with the electorate in 1975. Would there still have been an 'in' vote then - I have no idea, but clearly they didn't trust us with voting the way they wanted at that time.

It was still manipulation - should have put all the facts out there & accepted whatever the result was.

No Internet or Social Media at that time so more difficult to do your own research & we were more reliant on news channels/papers for information all of which has a particular bent to them