• Welcome, guest!

    This is a forum devoted to discussion of Wolverhampton Wanderers.
    Why not sign up and contribute? Registered members get a fully ad-free experience!

REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

It was just an observation. We will certainly have major issues if EU citizens all go back home.

Was talking to a transport manager of a very large fleet (circa 1000 trucks) and he reckons about 60% of his Eastern European drivers are planning on returning home.

I know a hotel owner who is struggling to recruit staff as a lot of his European staff have gone home. There's a big problem looming for a lot of businesses where a lot of manual jobs requiring little or no education are not going to be filled due to a small recruitment pool.
 
I don't doubt that though the Government of the day wasn't prepared to share that with the electorate in 1975. Would there still have been an 'in' vote then - I have no idea, but clearly they didn't trust us with voting the way they wanted at that time.

It was still manipulation - should have put all the facts out there & accepted whatever the result was.

No Internet or Social Media at that time so more difficult to do your own research & we were more reliant on news channels/papers for information all of which has a particular bent to them

Yeah, but this referendum wasn't about going over 40+ year old ground, was it.
 
Yeah, but this referendum wasn't about going over 40+ year old ground, was it.

That would still have had an impact on the vote in 2016 though - Cameron should have considered that when he called it - (the problem that modern medicine has given with lengthening lifetimes)
 
That would still have had an impact on the vote in 2016 though - Cameron should have considered that when he called it - (the problem that modern medicine has given with lengthening lifetimes)

Yes, the 'Alright Jack' generation have had all the benefits of the EU and now want to fuck everybody else over. Top work.
 
If there really are tons of 60-80 year olds permanently seething over something that happened in 1975, I worry for humanity.
 
Yes, the 'Alright Jack' generation have had all the benefits of the EU and now want to fuck everybody else over. Top work.

However you want to see it - there have been benefits with being in the EU, but downsides as well

Would we have been as well off if we had stayed out? - unknowable really, but no more unlikely to have been a worse outcome than anything else. I have never had a problem with people moving (whether from the UK to other European countries or vice versa as long as they are there to work & contribute) though that's not, for me, what this is about.

I knew there was a reason why I don't normally bother posting on this thread
 
Considering that we pretty much joined the EC as our empire and position in the world was crumbling post-war, I'd say we have benefitted massively from our membersship.
 
The referendum was not called because the EU refused to play ball. Let us remember that cameron is not an effective statesman. he's a privelidged $#@!, who surrounded himself with yes men, schoolfriends, and people who's world view was his.

He was not able to be master of his own party, let alone an effective pm or representative of the UK.

He cultivated an image that appeared to make him electable. Even this wasn't very good, he couldn't even win an election against gordon brown ffs. Which shows everything was style without substance.

He then half arsedly (as he does with most stuff) has a bit of a chat with the EU, then returns and calls the referendum on a whim to prove how right he $#@!ing is, as he's always right. Plus, he believes it will give him a mandate for the country, and most importantly it will give him a mandate within his own party, which in reality the conservatives have been divided on europe for decades, and he hoped to quell that one.

Spectacular failure on every front, from someone who is a failure as a human being. This whole process, and a lot of what has happened since has never been about the best interests of the country, or even about the will of the people. Start to finish it has been about self interest of specific individuals in the conservative party. May didn't learn from any of that, being the candidate not as bad as everyone else (but no good as a candidate) to obtain the leadership. Sham GE which also backfires, and then getting into bed shamefully with the DUP shows her self interest. Everything boris does is based on self interest. Gove has consistently acted in his own self interest. Liam fox manages to come out of the wilderness based on self interest (and possibly adam werrity's self interest too). I mean that $#@!er should have never been allowed to resume political life given his conflicts of interest, yet is all ok! rees mogg has used it to develop his own cult status, and so on.

As a result, we've got racism and hate crime on a constant rise. People are dying earlier, in manners which are preventable owing to the shocking self interested policies that cameron and co have put into place. Everyone hates each other, as we are either remainers or brexiteers. The labour party, to their shame, have engaged in their own petty squabbles and their own self interests far too frequently throughout this whole debacle.

This whole thing has been about some rich peoples self interests. Quite a contradiction to his strapline of "we're all in this together. We are now, cos of you, you $#@!ing $#@!. You used the country for your own interests, and accept no accountability or responsibility, and it highlights how $#@!ing contradictory and full of lies you were, and that set the tone for everything subsequent.

It's a disgrace. It has never, ever been about the EU, and it still isn't. All this is about squabbles within the conservative party. The whole UK is going to suffer as a result of these squabbles. Not one thing have they done as part of this that has actually beein in the national interest.
I agree with every word, but in future take the Danny Dyer approach and just call him a Twat. It'll save you a lot of time.
 
I don't doubt that though the Government of the day wasn't prepared to share that with the electorate in 1975. Would there still have been an 'in' vote then - I have no idea, but clearly they didn't trust us with voting the way they wanted at that time.

It was still manipulation - should have put all the facts out there & accepted whatever the result was.

No Internet or Social Media at that time so more difficult to do your own research & we were more reliant on news channels/papers for information all of which has a particular bent to them
The manipulation came later. Thatcher (pro Europe in 75 and she openly criticised the Labour government for failing to join the ERM in 78) was influential in securing the Single European Act, (1986), which set a deadline of 1992 for the full completion of the single market.

This involved: the removal of barriers to movement of people; the harmonisation of national standards; rules on how governments buy services and goods; the liberalisation of financial institution; the setting of more standard value added tax rates, and European business laws.

Strange how history is re-written to put the blame at the door of those pesky faceless Brussels beaurocrats.
 
I know a hotel owner who is struggling to recruit staff as a lot of his European staff have gone home. There's a big problem looming for a lot of businesses where a lot of manual jobs requiring little or no education are not going to be filled due to a small recruitment pool.

We have about 75% Polish in our place. Most seem content to stay for now, but if there was a mass upping of sticks and back to Poland we would be absolutely screwed.
 
What downsides?

Wasn't going to bother coming back on here, but you deserve an answer.

Moving the goalposts from a trading block with common standards & requirements which was beneficial to a closer political/economic union (which was never expoused at the start)

A common currency & allowing countries in which in no way met the criteria for doing so (about the only good thing Gordon Brown achieved was stopping Blair taking us in) which has caused untold issues in parts of the bloc using that. Ask the Greeks how that has worked out. It is still under extreme pressure & may still not survive.

You can say that the UK is complicit as we were in there when much of this happened (we were, though that's not a reason to not call a stop if change is not going to happen), but we were 1 voice (& yes we had a veto negotiated in some areas, but not all).

The UK has fecked up with Governments of various colours & there were issues we should have been challenging, but red lines or not our influence has been diluted as the EU has expanded.

I won't comment on EU profligacy as the UK Government is perfectly capable of pissing money up the wall anyway.

There is no reason why, if we had said no in 1975, that the UK & the EEC would not have agreed a trading deal which benefited both parties- may have taken a year or so to work out the details, but that would be history now.
 
It's just simple maths, we have 73 out of 751 MEPs. 9.7% of the whole thing. Only France (by one) and Germany have more than us. They also have bigger populations, so fair enough.

We have (had) a ridiculous amount of influence as well as numerous "special deals" just for us.
 
When I did A Level politics there were 12 members of the then EEC and two of those had only joined a few years beforehand. It's not much of a surprise that our influence will reduce with another 16 countries involved. That said, along with France and Germany we were still one of the countries with the most influence, that's why we got the concessions we did, but the days of the PM (Thatcher) bulldozering her way through aren't and won't return, not based on her political might but based on economies of scale.
 
Well, the evidence on EU migration suggests it's a net economic benefit to the nation and I'd argue a cultural one too. But other people will have different experiences to mine so I don't claim to be representative of anything.

I can't be arsed to find it now but I've posted on here before something about the founding principles of the EC/EU. They were very clear that its original intention was very much political and borne out of the experiences of the wars of the first half of the 20th C. The mainland Europeans I speak to seem very comfortable with that concept. Clearly a lot of people in the UK aren't.

I don't disagree. The problem is not free movement per se but in setting no criteria, such as having required funds, in-demand skills or a contract of employment. This would clearly be a very low bar, but if the govt could credibly spin immigration from the EU as 'we're only letting in who suits us', there might be less resentment. We opted out of Schengen; we could have pushed for an exception here when Little Englanders' discontent became apparent. As I said, perception >> facts. In an economically disparate group of states the flow will always be from poorer to richer and some of the richer won't like it. It doesn't take a genius to work that out – just someone with a bit more foresight than a politician.
 
Back
Top