REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Tredman]

As before, CBA. But if you genuinely think pensioners contribute more to an economy than working young adults you need to think again.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You can't just crowbar people into employment. British people don't have the skills to do the jobs that EU nationals are currently doing in the UK, Davis has admitted as much.

 

[thehistorymakers]

You can't just crowbar people into employment. British people don't have the skills to do the jobs that EU nationals are currently doing in the UK, Davis has admitted as much.

Working in hotels, agricultural work etc? listen I am all for skilled workers being allowed to come the UK, but paying people money to do nothing and then topping up cheap wages often given to foreign labour, does not make sense. The government is forced to pay for unemployed people who aren't working as well as paying people who come to the UK and are often exploited. They will often recieve benefits to top up their wages and help to meet the costs of their rents.
It is a landlord's economy and a false economy.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You support sending the unemployed to work in the fields? Even if they don't want to, have no experience or aptitude for manual work? Don't live anywhere near any rural areas?

IDS and his Arbeit Macht Frei policies have a lot to answer for.

 

[thehistorymakers]

As before, CBA. But if you genuinely think pensioners contribute more to an economy than working young adults you need to think again.

Pensioners who paid for their pension in one country and spend it in another are a big benefit to that country, especially when their pensions are often higher than local people's wages, in the country that they live in.

 

[leedswolf]

Plenty of skilled Portuguese and Spanish working in the GB construction industry. Alongside other EU nationals.

#cracked record

 

[thehistorymakers]

You support sending the unemployed to work in the fields? Even if they don't want to, have no experience or aptitude for manual work? Don't live anywhere near any rural areas?

IDS and his Arbeit Macht Frei policies have a lot to answer for.

I don't support paying people goverment money to do nothing, when their is work. It is bad for Government finances and bad for the unemployed person.
You will never get unemployment money in Spain, or many other EU countries if you haven't worked.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It doesn't make any sense though, forcing people to take work that they're fundamentally unsuited to is even more of a false economy than the fairly muddled and inaccurate picture you paint. How long do you think people will last if they're in a job that they despise and it pays them a pittance? What do you want them to do, stay miserable for their entire lives? Or drop out of the system and have absolutely zero support?

This is why the Government's shite initiatives such as welfare sanctions and the Work Programme don't function anything like competently. It's not just a numbers game, these are actual people.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Plenty of skilled Portuguese and Spanish working in the GB construction industry. Alongside other EU nationals.

#cracked record

There are many more working in unskilled work. What incentive is there to train young people with skills, if you can keep getting trained people from abroad?
Don't you think this is a disservice to the young people of the UK?

 

[thehistorymakers]

It doesn't make any sense though, forcing people to take work that they're fundamentally unsuited to is even more of a false economy than the fairly muddled and inaccurate picture you paint. How long do you think people will last if they're in a job that they despise and it pays them a pittance? What do you want them to do, stay miserable for their entire lives? Or drop out of the system and have absolutely zero support?

This is why the Government's $#@!e initiatives such as welfare sanctions and the Work Programme don't function anything like competently. It's not just a numbers game, these are actual people.

Ask the sort of companies that Leeds has worked for to train British youngsters. It has to make more sense.

 

[leedswolf]

Most of them do.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Ask the sort of companies that Leeds has worked for to train British youngsters. It has to make more sense.

And takes time. The recession put companies back 5 years with their apprentices.

 

[Trips]

There are many more working in unskilled work. What incentive is there to train young people with skills, if you can keep getting trained people from abroad?
Don't you think this is a disservice to the young people of the UK?

Post 5203 - You are all for skilled workers coming to the UK

The post quoted - 5209.

So are you happy for skilled workers to come over, or you don't want skilled workers to come over?

As for your point on unemployed people taking low-skilled jobs I've explained this before, too many jobs, not enough people in UK, and too many people either unwilling or unable to do those roles.

Taking people from the unemployment line, and shoving them into work they either don't want or can't do is not going to solve anything.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I am all for Doctors, scientists etc, but think building trades should be trained in our country where possible. It seems ludicrous to me having young people on council estates unemployed and bringing people from abroad. I take note of what Leeds and Penk said, but hope the government make the money available to train our youngsters, instead of them being overlooked.

 

[Tredman]

Ah yes, let's rape all countries who invest in educating their young people and bring them here.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

If you want to live in the UK, for the first few years at least, you should have medical insurance. You should not have access to a free NHS like the millions who have paid tax and N.I. Why should some get something for nothing. Bloody pay up like the rest of us. Support yourself and screw the nanny state. The clue is in the title, it's a National Health Service, not a World Health Service. We can't look after our own elderly and I know from bitter experience.

This is where I differ to you. I believe that access to a health service should be a persons right not a privilege you have to pay for. An EU migrant is a human being just like me and their health is just as important as mine.

There must be UK adult citizens who have never worked (and therefore paid tax or NI on their wages) do you think they should be denied free access to the NHS too?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Ah yes, let's rape all countries who invest in educating their young people and bring them here.

In a roundabout way that has what has been happening for the last 10 years. One of the things that first started me disliking the EU, is after over 20 years of spending hundreds of billions of euros, to bring southern European countries up to our standard, the people in those countries are poorer than before they joined the EU.
To see families having to leave their loved ones and grandparents behind, to go and pack boxes in the UK, isnt something that should be happening in this day and age. Doctors having to leave their countries, often African countries behind, can not be good for the very people who need them most in their countries.

 

[thehistorymakers]

This is where I differ to you. I believe that access to a health service should be a persons right not a privilege you have to pay for. An EU migrant is a human being just like me and their health is just as important as mine.

There must be UK adult citizens who have never worked (and therefore paid tax or NI on their wages) do you think they should be denied free access to the NHS too?

Would you agree then, that UK citizens that go to live in southern European countries, should be able to get the same benefits they do in the UK. After all, we pay housing benefits and social security to people that come to live in the UK, give families houses if they have children ( proud that we do), but when British people go to live in many EU countries, these countries don't pay social security etc. It is a bit one way traffic and something that is unsustainable, people can come and share money that people had already contributed to in the UK, but we get nothing when we go there.
It is a little like, we are asked to share, go to their countries and you probably won't get a job, help with renting a house, or money to feed your kids. It is ok sharing if we are doing fantastic, but when pensioners are getting poorer all the time in real terms and we have 4 mllion working in poverty, it doesn't look like we have that much to share anymore.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Post 5203 - You are all for skilled workers coming to the UK

The post quoted - 5209.

So are you happy for skilled workers to come over, or you don't want skilled workers to come over?

As for your point on unemployed people taking low-skilled jobs I've explained this before, too many jobs, not enough people in UK, and too many people either unwilling or unable to do those roles.

Taking people from the unemployment line, and shoving them into work they either don't want or can't do is not going to solve anything.

Sorry Trips but you keep saying not enough people, if we haven't got beds in our hospitals, houses for the families that live here, at some time you might have to think maybe we have too many people at the moment. More of everything means more government expenditure and that has to be paid for. At the same time as we have pressure on our infrastructure, more people will mean a continuing dropping of living standards.

 

[Trips]

That is down to the government not investing in the NHS, and closing hospitals.

Do you honestly believe that if we stopped immigration for low-skilled jobs, British people would take all those jobs?