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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Johnny75 said:
Yea to the old generation, we're so thankful you made terrible decision after terrible decision and took us out of Europe.

Enjoy your pension you've earned it....well not really because that isn't how it works but y'know don't let little things like facts bother you now as they haven't at any point before.

As for that German phrase, saying U.K. Residents should be doing jobs rather than no job at all males that phrase perfectly relevant but I'm not sure you realise that THM.
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Not paying benefits to people who don't want to work, has nothing to do with Auschwitz. Having to pay benefits to people because they can't get a job, whilst employers are taking on people from other countries, doesn't make sense economically. Having to pay people benefits who go to work, because companies like Sportsdirect are using draconian working conditions, low wages and exploration, is not the type of UK that we should be striving for.
Indirectly, the people who have paid in to the system, are seeing their living standards drop, to subsidise People's wages, because big companies are exploiting their workforce.
 
thehistorymakers said:
Not paying benefits to people who don't want to work, has nothing to do with Auschwitz. Having to pay benefits to people because they can't get a job, whilst employers are taking on people from other countries, doesn't make sense economically. Having to pay people benefits who go to work, because companies like Sportsdirect are using draconian working conditions, low wages and exploration, is not the type of UK that we should be striving for.
Indirectly, the people who have paid in to the system, are seeing their living standards drop, to subsidise People's wages, because big companies are exploiting their workforce.
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If you don't understand something then it's best not to comment on it. I suggest you read exactly what the phrase is and how it relates to your point as you have illustrated it well in your rant.

And repeating the same thing over and over is just bloody annoying any chance you can move off from the trite crap you write into a sensible debate as Cyber has done?
 
Cyber-_-man said:
Athe whole allowance please lol!
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Would the tax tax be significantly reduced by this? I have no problem with your suggestion but there must be a balance and as I don't agree with your immigration what do you suggest?

Corporation tax, higher tax rates for the top 1%, outlawing of tax avoidance schemes?
 
Johnny75 said:
Would the tax tax be significantly reduced by this? I have no problem with your suggestion but there must be a balance and as I don't agree with your immigration what do you suggest?

Corporation tax, higher tax rates for the top 1%, outlawing of tax avoidance schemes?
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I don't know without doing figures. It's just the logic of paying benefits to one partner while taking the other that seems illogical.
All the tax things you suggest should be looked at.
Additionally I would outlaw percentage pay increases for 5 years. Pay would rise for all by 1000 per year. Narrow the pay gap.
 
Johnny75 said:
If you don't understand something then it's best not to comment on it. I suggest you read exactly what the phrase is and how it relates to your point as you have illustrated it well in your rant.

And repeating the same thing over and over is just bloody annoying any chance you can move off from the trite crap you write into a sensible debate as Cyber has done?
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Easy Johnny, don't use something completely out of context, that has nothing to do what we are talking about, then their will be no need for me to explain to you that using sonething that is written outside NAZI's death camps , is out of context, wrong, bad taste and lacking of respect for the thousands of people who died in them.
 
thehistorymakers said:
Easy Johnny, don't use something completely out of context, that has nothing to do what we are talking about, then their will be no need for me to explain to you that using sonething that is written outside NAZI's death camps , is out of context, wrong, bad taste and lacking of respect for the thousands of people who died in them.
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As I said if you don't understand the phrase you really shouldn't comment on it. The phrase means 'Work will set you free' and was entirely in context of you saying people should work no matter the job. Can you not see that?

If you can't I think you ought to dip out now.
 
I'm totally comfortable with using it in the context of IDS' welfare policies, being as he did actually say "Work sets you free" and he has actually caused the deaths of people. I've used it numerous times on here before. Quite a bit of Tory policy post-2010 has the whiff of eugenics.

Forcing people to take work that they don't want and can't do is a terrible idea and doesn't work on so many levels. We aren't being crippled as a country by unemployment payments FWIW.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
I don't know without doing figures. It's just the logic of paying benefits to one partner while taking the other that seems illogical.
All the tax things you suggest should be looked at.
Additionally I would outlaw percentage pay increases for 5 years. Pay would rise for all by 1000 per year. Narrow the pay gap.
Click to expand...

You want all business to give a government determined payrise? Really?
 
Johnny75 said:
As I said if you don't understand the phrase you really shouldn't comment on it. The phrase means 'Work will set you free' and was entirely in context of you saying people should work no matter the job. Can you not see that?

If you can't I think you ought to dip out now.
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You said it in German, you know which places it was written outside.
I have never said people should work for free, I have said it doesn't make sense bringing people to the UK to do a job which a person could do that already lives in the UK. I can't see the point of paying benefits to people who could be doing a job, that often is low-skilled. I really am not saying that the worker should do it for free, I am saying companies should be paying a living wage and the government shouldn't have to be topping up wages with benefits. There is an enticement there, for companies to pay low wages and exploit their workers. The opposite of that I want them to work for free. That is why I said the phrase that which was written outside NAZI's death camps had nothing to do with what I was saying.

Anyway, we can move on now......
 
thehistorymakers said:
Have I ever suggested people work for free?
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No-one has suggested you were saying that (although ironically it is current Tory policy that JSA claimants do effectively have to work for free in some cases).

You're propagating the idea that we simply say "there are X number of unemployed and Y number of semi-skilled/unskilled jobs, ship them all there" which is a terrible idea on all levels.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
No-one has suggested you were saying that (although ironically it is current Tory policy that JSA claimants do effectively have to work for free in some cases).

You're propagating the idea that we simply say "there are X number of unemployed and Y number of semi-skilled/unskilled jobs, ship them all there" which is a terrible idea on all levels.
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Can you see I am blaming the companies? Not the workers? I have said it on numerous posts.
 
Low pay is a separate point (as is having a proper minimum wage).

I thought your argument initially was "we don't need immigrants to do non-skilled jobs when there are vacancies in that field and we have unemployed UK citizens". Ergo, round up the dole queue and send them to do that work, whether they want it or not and whether they can actually do it or not.
 
thehistorymakers said:
I do understand what it said, I also understand why you said it and I disagree with your use of it.
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You don't understand it as you are showing. DW has been polite enough to tell you you're wrong twice now.

The phrase is not about people working for free. It is about working will set you free. Pushing people into work will set them free even if they don't want or aren't skilled enough/ suitable for that role. Do you think that is acceptable on any level?
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
Low pay is a separate point (as is having a proper minimum wage).

I thought your argument initially was "we don't need immigrants to do non-skilled jobs when there are vacancies in that field and we have unemployed UK citizens". Ergo, round up the dole queue and send them to do that work, whether they want it or not and whether they can actually do it or not.
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Not at all. I am blaming the companies for exploiting workers by paying low wages that need to be topped up by the government with benefits and housing allowance. At the moment there are many people who can't afford to go to work, I don't buy this "they don't want to work," rubbish. It is all about, that companies are exploiting high immigration to pay low wages and often zero hour contracts. It isn't the immigrant or the unemployed that I have a problem with, but the manipulative companies that are using immigration to exploit our workers and the taxpayer is being asked to foot the bill.
I have nothing against immigration, if you have enough hospital beds, houses etc and you aren't asking the poorest and oldest to foot the bill, by seeing a big drop in their living standards, but that isn't what is happening.
 
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