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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

And round we go in a fucking circle again

Your second paragraph has been debunked fucking COUNTLESS TIMES as complete fucking shite so please stop repeating it as if gospel.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
And round we go in a $#@!ing circle again

Your second paragraph has been debunked $#@!ing COUNTLESS TIMES as complete $#@!ing $#@!e so please stop repeating it as if gospel.
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It hasn't been debunked at all. You might not agree with it, but you haven't proven it to be rubbish. In fact both of the main parties in the country have stated that high immigration of low skilled workers drives down wages. There are 4 million people working that are below the poverty line. I am not blaming immigrants for that, but companies who are paying low wages and getting the taxpayer to bring the workers wages up to a level where they can afford to live with dignity.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/05/uk-dependency-foreign-labour-miliband
 
Johnny75 said:
You want all business to give a government determined payrise? Really?
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No I want pay rises to be a specific amount not a percentage is my suggestion. If its 100 or 1000 its an amount rather than a percentaspercentasg. My loaf of bread costs the same as roman abrahamovic.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
No I want pay rises to be a specific amount not a percentage is my suggestion. If its 100 or 1000 its an amount rather than a percentaspercentasg. My loaf of bread costs the same as roman abrahamovic.
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Other than being political suicide businesses will just tell you to fuck right off and promptly take the government to court. What you've advocated is government interference in people's lives of the highest order and no government would be that stupid. It does nothing to alleviate my argument before about paying higher tax and the brain drain on the country would be faster than the debunking of THM's arguments.
 
Johnny75 said:
Other than being political suicide businesses will just tell you to $#@! right off and promptly take the government to court. What you've advocated is government interference in people's lives of the highest order and no government would be that stupid. It does nothing to alleviate my argument before about paying higher tax and the brain drain on the country would be faster than the debunking of THM's arguments.
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L
Tell me johnny how percentage pay rises are fair? And how would you address the increasing pay gap? I would be very interested to see hat you would like to see done or attempted. If you do what you've always done you will get what you always got. Its time in my view to try something's that are bit different
 
Cyber-_-man said:
L
Tell me johnny how percentage pay rises are fair? And how would you address the increasing pay gap? I would be very interested to see hat you would like to see done or attempted. If you do what you've always done you will get what you always got. Its time in my view to try something's that are bit different
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You can't control anybody's payrise unless in the public sector. It would kill any political party as a vote loser. I'm not in favour of any government interference in business unless it is fraudulent or price fixing for the sake of profit, effectively racketeering.

Telling people what they can and cannot earn is bordering on the tyrannical, which is why we have progressive tax rates (and a flat tax to boot). You want to boost people's self worth then you need to change attitudes towards money and consumption rather than effectively creating a black market.
 
Johnny75 said:
You can't control anybody's payrise unless in the public sector. It would kill any political party as a vote loser. I'm not in favour of any government interference in business unless it is fraudulent or price fixing for the sake of profit, effectively racketeering.

Telling people what they can and cannot earn is bordering on the tyrannical, which is why we have progressive tax rates (and a flat tax to boot). You want to boost people's self worth then you need to change attitudes towards money and consumption rather than effectively creating a black market.
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Thank you, back to the question. Do you think percentage pay rises are fair? What would you do?
 
Cyber-_-man said:
Thank you, back to the question. Do you think percentage pay rises are fair? What would you do?
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I've answered your question. I wouldn't change anything as I think they businesses should be free to do what they like within the law. I did say that above.
 
Johnny75 said:
I've answered your question. I wouldn't change anything as I think they businesses should be free to do what they like within the law. I did say that above.
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I didnt see that or read your post that way sorry. You see I struggle with that as the only principle while the gap between those who have and those who have not increases. For a period of time I would like that gap to narrow a bit and therefore instead of an annual pay rise I like the idea of a one off lump sum. For the haves it would mean very little. For the have nots it would mean a lot. 50% of the country's wealth is in the hands 1% of the population.
Percentage pay rise award loyalty as a rule.
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Yep so does an annual bonus so if everyone got that bonus instead of a pay rise?

Does the cost of living increase by a percentage or a fixed amount?
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Percentage but thats across the board a 1% increase in the cost of living for the lowest paid is significant. 10% for the highest is barely noticed

I am not saying my idea is the answer. The problem I see is that there is a pay gap that's getting wider. That cannot be right or healthy for the country or for the morale of the lowest paid. Its a circle you cant get out of. It breeds unrealistic dreams, like short cuts to fame, you tube, pop idol , etc etc. So many people think that fame and fortune is just around the corner or a lottery win will be the answer. The reality is quite different.

I am not being argumentative I just want to see some ideas of what could and should be changed. During these brexit negotiations there must be things that could be being researched or prepared for that means when brexit comes we have a new and better way. Its surely the only way you will ever hope to win over 16 million people who wanted to stay. Show those people that the government has listened and has made tweaks to things to make the while thing both palatable and better for as many as possible and people will soon be won over. The first thing , like it or not, that makes people happier is if they have more money in their pocket for the same amount of effort. But what else would people like to see or do during this hiatus while we await brexit? The country will be treading water in so many ways that there has never been a better time to look at different options.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
Yep so does an annual bonus so if everyone got that bonus instead of a pay rise?
.
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So those that have been with you for 10 years on £40k you give a 4% pay rise, but those who've been with you 6 months and on £25k you give a 6% pay rise, seems like your penalising someone for being with you a long time.
 
All that will happen is the most important staff will jump ship to other companies to secure bigger pay rises. Absolutely stupid idea.
 
It would only work in a state controlled economy.

We do have a massive issue in earning disparity. Personally I think Corbyn's idea of a max wage cap is worth investigating (I get the idea that top financial 'talent' my leave the country, but well they can go anyway)
 
Sectoral collective pay bargaining with trade unions would help address low pay and inequality.
 
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