Refereeing question

[Deleted Cyber]

thank you.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

There seems to be general agreement on here that the standard of refereeing is not as good as it should be. So I will ask a genuine question.

What could and should be done to improve the standards of referees and assistant referees?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Weed out the truly abominable and educate the under performing to improve them. Yesterday was a ref you feel could improve. He missed stuff which he shouldn't. By contrast the ref in the burton game was beyond redemption.

 

[Johnny75]

There seems to be general agreement on here that the standard of refereeing is not as good as it should be. So I will ask a genuine question.

What could and should be done to improve the standards of referees and assistant referees?

Referees should take a coaching course to understand the mechanics of the game. An understanding of movement and basic tactics and how they were attained providing greater understanding of football itself.

The full time referees should have to take a football related higher education course, be that administrative, coaching or wider industry based. This would give them a wider view of the game itself and give some construct for their action every week.

In regards to making decisions live on the pitch, I believe there is a TV trial in Holland at the moment where one player was sent off for a foul the referee couldn't see completely. If this is successful then it should be implemented across the pro-game. I would like to see technology introduced to help the ref, much the same as rugby.

I believe there is a mentoring program already, this may need tweaking by the looks of things.

Referees could be helped by an eye in the stands to give a better view on decisions and referees. Mainly it boils down to recruitment and that needs to be better throughout the game. Better decision makers and characters that are able to make decisions under pressure. There are a multitude of courses to help with these situations that aren't sport related and I'm sure there are some CIPD courses in military and service arenas that could be transferable to referees.

 

[Aikiwolf]

I often get the impression that linesmen and refs don't work as a team. It feels like the ref is the one who makes decisions and the linos rarely infringement get on that area - an example is throw ins, how often does the better placed lino wait to see where the ref points?

A simplification of rules would help too, especially. Good. If it hits your hand it's a foul regardless.

Retrospective action being allowed, especially for diving. We should accept no one will get everything 100% and provide refs with the ability to review contentious decisions.

Finally, a public release of referee reports to help increase understanding between the public and officials.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I don't want to see more technology, referring decisions are part and parcel of the game and remove the imperfection and the game becomes more sterile. Some of my most abiding memories involve contentious decisions - John McGinlay/Steve Bull.

I want to be able to criticise the ref for decisions he has made and the one thing that would illuminate that debate further would be for the referee to be required to report their reasons for contentious decisions post match.

 

[Aikiwolf]

I agree TSB, I don't want the game sanitising with TV replays (not that they are always effective). Though perhaps a camera on the refs head would allow us to see exactly what the ref could see...

Better post game engagement should be welcomed and would really help imo.

I also think more stringent fitness requirements might be beneficial (Though I don't know what the current requirements are?)

 

[Tony Towner]

I don't want technology for opinion. If it were possible I'd be happy for it to be extended to all line decisions though as they are fact. With yesterday's clown we'd have still been there at 6 with video challenges.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Weed out the truly abominable and educate the under performing to improve them. Yesterday was a ref you feel could improve. He missed stuff which he shouldn't. By contrast the ref in the burton game was beyond redemption.

But by definition, a referee who has attained level one status would have been mentored and assessed along the way, and if a referee isn't good enough then that should have been addressed at some point, though I suppose the odd inadequate official can get through the net, but he shouldn't.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Referees should take a coaching course to understand the mechanics of the game. An understanding of movement and basic tactics and how they were attained providing greater understanding of football itself.

The full time referees should have to take a football related higher education course, be that administrative, coaching or wider industry based. This would give them a wider view of the game itself and give some construct for their action every week.

In regards to making decisions live on the pitch, I believe there is a TV trial in Holland at the moment where one player was sent off for a foul the referee couldn't see completely. If this is successful then it should be implemented across the pro-game. I would like to see technology introduced to help the ref, much the same as rugby.

I believe there is a mentoring program already, this may need tweaking by the looks of things.

Referees could be helped by an eye in the stands to give a better view on decisions and referees. Mainly it boils down to recruitment and that needs to be better throughout the game. Better decision makers and characters that are able to make decisions under pressure. There are a multitude of courses to help with these situations that aren't sport related and I'm sure there are some CIPD courses in military and service arenas that could be transferable to referees.

An excellent post, and I agree with most of it. The only point I would make is that there is an assessor (now called an observer) sitting in the stands, and they thoroughly dissect the performance of the match officials.

 

[Kenny]

Are the observer's reports available to view or are they private?

 

[Lord Knows]

At grass roots level how much teaching, mentoring and post match game analysis goes on so that starter refs develop over the course of a season. When older refs retire is their experience used to watch new recruits to help them understand the game. Post match do referees make themselves available to both clubs officials to discuss the games issues or do many officials take the match fee and go home.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Are the observer's reports available to view or are they private?

They are private. I know many people think they should be made public, but if you had an appraisal at work, that would be a private issue between you and your employer. And the same applies in football.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

At grass roots level how much teaching, mentoring and post match game analysis goes on so that starter refs develop over the course of a season. When older refs retire is their experience used to watch new recruits to help them understand the game. Post match do referees make themselves available to both clubs officials to discuss the games issues or do many officials take the match fee and go home.

There has been so much more effort at grass roots level to help the newly qualified referees. In Leicestershire all new starters have a mentor to help them. That mentor will be at least a level four referee or a retired referee who is prepared to help the new referees. The referee is rarely assessed until they get to level five, but that is largely due to there not being enough observers to cover all the referees that need observing. Post match at local level, I think most referees go straight home. And given the abuse some of them receive on a Sunday morning that is not surprising.

 

[Lord Knows]

There has been so much more effort at grass roots level to help the newly qualified referees. In Leicestershire all new starters have a mentor to help them. That mentor will be at least a level four referee or a retired referee who is prepared to help the new referees. The referee is rarely assessed until they get to level five, but that is largely due to there not being enough observers to cover all the referees that need observing. Post match at local level, I think most referees go straight home. And given the abuse some of them receive on a Sunday morning that is not surprising.

On the point about abuse would there be less if there wasn't an us and them culture and by adding post match discussions you start breaking down such barriers.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Some Sunday morning referees do nothing to help their cause.

When we played last Sunday there'd been an incident where an opponent had kicked the ball from under our keepers hand when he'd come to collect a loose ball, a little while later with the ball out of play I quietly tried to ask the ref why he hadn't give it as a foul but as soon as I started my question he just responded by barking 'I don't remember' over and over. He didn't even let me get as far as highlighting what incident I wanted to discuss so how can he know he doesn't remember?!

People are always going to make mistakes but why don't they at least have the respect to stand up and admit them or explain how they came to their decision? It helps no-one by being so defensive as it simply riles a lot of players and then you end up with a lot more animosity between the two teams and the officials which can often see things get out of hand.

The young lad we had yesterday morning was a bit shit in all fairness, he was just too weak, gave some really soft freekicks but then bottled a couple of big decisions too, at least he had the decency to explain why he'd made his decisions though so no-one really got on his back about anything at any point.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

On the point about abuse would there be less if there wasn't an us and them culture and by adding post match discussions you start breaking down such barriers.

I agree, but on occasions it is nigh on impossible to have a sensible post match discussion. Remember that just after the match has ended is when emotions are running at their highest.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

I still believe that at least the referees match report should be made public. The managers get to talk with him, the angry paying fans get nothing!

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Some Sunday morning referees do nothing to help their cause.

When we played last Sunday there'd been an incident where an opponent had kicked the ball from under our keepers hand when he'd come to collect a loose ball, a little while later with the ball out of play I quietly tried to ask the ref why he hadn't give it as a foul but as soon as I started my question he just responded by barking 'I don't remember' over and over. He didn't even let me get as far as highlighting what incident I wanted to discuss so how can he know he doesn't remember?!

People are always going to make mistakes but why don't they at least have the respect to stand up and admit them or explain how they came to their decision? It helps no-one by being so defensive as it simply riles a lot of players and then you end up with a lot more animosity between the two teams and the officials which can often see things get out of hand.

The young lad we had yesterday morning was a bit shit in all fairness, he was just too weak, gave some really soft freekicks but then bottled a couple of big decisions too, at least he had the decency to explain why he'd made his decisions though so no-one really got on his back about anything at any point.

All referees are constantly reminded that if asked a question in a polite manner, then it does no harm to answer the question. Players behaviour often falls below accepted levels, but some referees are no better. Nothing winds a player up more than the referee being aloof and arrogant.

Regarding the young referee you had yesterday, well many young referees are a little apprehensive and that can translate into their decision making. Though it is good that he explained his decisions. Another thing that I have found, is if I have dropped a right clanger, an apology to the captain for making a mistake often goes down very well.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

We had an interesting incident in micro's game yesterday. At under 12s the linesmen are one parent from each team, and the referee usually tells them to deal with offside only, and to only flag in clear situations (presumably to avoid contentious goals!)

Anyway, our forward is clean through and gets chopped down in the box. The ball runs free and the referee plays advantage as we have another player on the scene. The ball is duly stuck in the net, only for the (defending team's) linesman to give an outrageously incorrect offside call (the ball went backwards in the challenge for a start; not to mention coming off the defender anyway). However, the referee says he couldn't go back for the penalty as he had played advantage, but the poor offside decision stood.

Very odd one.