QPR 1, Wolves 2; The thank goodness for that Verdict Thread

[arklowolf]

Sako's general play wasn't very good when he first came here, he produced a reasonable amount in terms of goals and assists fairly quickly but out of possession he was no good, his tracking back caused us more problems than it solved and he routinely disappeared from games (partly as we had no idea how to use him). He only improved by playing every week and learning about the league, by the end he was easily one of the best players in the division. I don't know if Cav can go on to be that good for us - he's clearly not a no hoper, I wouldn't say he's anything like as explosive as Bakary on a good day though - but the only way he's going to have a fair crack at it is if we play him every week.

Yeah I agree, that's why I'd start him ahead of Saville.

 

[arklowolf]

Many many times. Have you?

Yep.
I thought Roger Johnson and O'Hara were good signings for a start. can't get much more wrong than that I suppose.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Now there we completely agree on many things. If it is manager choosing the players or Thelwell choosing the players, then my preference is manager every day of the week. I have no objection to a Mendes involvement personally. He is a super agent for a reason. However, we shouldn't be totally relying on him as one-dimensional recruitment may not be the smartest idea ever, whatever way that recruitment leans.

Of your second point, I think we have the financial wherewithal to rely on the "or better" rather than "proven championship quality". There are plenty of championship quality players. They aren't good enough to go higher. We want to, so lets try and get players suitable for top flight now.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Now there we completely agree on many things. If it is manager choosing the players or Thelwell choosing the players, then my preference is manager every day of the week. I have no objection to a Mendes involvement personally. He is a super agent for a reason. However, we shouldn't be totally relying on him as one-dimensional recruitment may not be the smartest idea ever, whatever way that recruitment leans.

Of your second point, I think we have the financial wherewithal to rely on the "or better" rather than "proven championship quality". There are plenty of championship quality players. They aren't good enough to go higher. We want to, so lets try and get players suitable for top flight now.

Why do you have more faith in Mendes than Thelwell?

One's actually got a footballing background, the other is just a money maker, one is acting on the clubs behalf and thus respecting it's interests, the other is just out to make money. Mendes is no talent spotter, he's just a salesman, Thelwell might well be guff but at least he's got a clear intention, I wouldn't be trusting Mendes or any other third party to make any recruitment decisions, that has to be done from within the club.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Because one is the best agent in world football with an incredible set of contacts and awesome players on his books, and the other is Kevin Thelwell

 

[arklowolf]

Should be solely at the managers discretion.. Previously (to me) we seem to have had a scatter-gun approach to signing. Keep signing mediocrity in the hope that one of them might be good?
I think at one stage we had about 8 players who could be classed as 'wide men' all of a similar quality whilst the squad was threadbare in other areas.

 

[Freddeno]

We can't play intricate passing football with that midfield. Coady and Edwards are not equipped for that at all. They're in the side for their workrate and overall industry (plus Dave getting a goal every now and then), if we had better footballers in there - which eventually we have to have - then it might be an option.

thats why i want a playmaker ala Shelvey type..I know youre not his biggest fan but his passing skills are good, wish we still had David Jones. proper PM

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Because one is the best agent in world football with an incredible set of contacts and awesome players on his books, and the other is Kevin Thelwell

But he's no judge of those players or the team he's getting them for, you ask Mendes for a new midfielder and he'll be sending the one with the best profit margin who's willing to go, not the one who's the best fit for the team.

 

[Johnny75]

But he's no judge of those players or the team he's getting them for, you ask Mendes for a new midfielder and he'll be sending the one with the best profit margin who's willing to go, not the one who's the best fit for the team.

And you know this how?

You have absolutely no idea of Mendes business plan or plans for his players or how he works with clubs to develop his talent so why make the assumption? He could be looking at maximising his talent portfolio for 5 years down the road on some players and getting the best exposure for others immidiately but in a different league.

The man is a world class agent and probably a right clever bastard to boot.

The other option is Kevin Thelwell who claimed Grant Holt was a good player, difficult one I know.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

And you know this how?

You have absolutely no idea of Mendes business plan or plans for his players or how he works with clubs to develop his talent so why make the assumption? He could be looking at maximising his talent portfolio for 5 years down the orad on some players and getting the best exposure for others immidiately but in a different league.

The man is a world class agent and probably a right clever bastard to boot.

The other option is Kevin Thelwell who claimed Grant Holt was a good player, difficult one I know.

It's just an opinion, calm down.

I'm not claiming that Thelwell is any good, I just don't see an agent being a suitable recruiter, their primary focus is almost always going to be on the financial side, they're essentially salesmen and their clients are the product they're peddling. It's the same in any industry, you get some who are pretty genuine and look to get the customer the best product for their needs but there are far more out there who only care about getting the biggest commission they can.

Replacing Thelwell looks like a pretty obvious move given recent recruitment but I'd rather it was done by bringing in a superior person in his role, someone internal who'll always have the clubs interests as his priority, rather than just going to some bloke with a contact book who happens to have some fancy names in it, names that are completely irrelevant at this stage.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

We OWN a chunk of his business. It is in his interests that it works out well with us.

 

[Dinowolf]

Don't think we were great at all, but I'll happily take the win.

We'll miss Ikeme purely because Longeran will cost us goals, constantly.
Thought Iorfa and Doherty got forward well, we look better when they are dangerous.
Saiss is really excellent, lost his cool in the last 10 minutes though. Some of his passing was majestic.
Dicko struggled a bit, but I'll give him the benefit and say he's still getting up to speed. Needs a goal soon.
Cav could have no complaints about being subbed off, he wasn't great. However, I'd still pick him next time if Lambert thinks the only alternative is George Saville. That defensive sub really invited pressure and no outlet. Terrible. Wallace or Bod were much better options. Stop picking Saville wide left! Or at all really!
Thought Bod was lively when he came one, bit longer break and he'll be back to where he was at the start of the season. If he'd scored after that beautiful turn I'd have been so happy for him.

MOTM Costa for me - dangerous all game, brilliant goal. Probably should have wrapped it up earlier but Smithies was playing a blinder it seemed.

Not sure I'd want to change much for next time, but as Saiss is suspended (I think) then Price to come in.
Would like an update on the injuries to Evans and Prince in particular as they would be in and around the first XI for me.

Good summary. Agree with all of this including Saiss. ( As DW says he's not suspended as the cut-off for 5 yellows in the EFL was 30th November, 10 yellows by 12th March).

While not saying Saiss is the answer to everything, he times most tackles well and has good vision for a pass. The one to Costa for his goal was superb. He needs game time, as has been mentioned for other players like Cav and Dicko, and hopefully Lambert at least has seen the contribution he makes to the midfield, even if some fans haven't.

 

[Johnny75]

It's just an opinion, calm down.

I'm not claiming that Thelwell is any good, I just don't see an agent being a suitable recruiter, their primary focus is almost always going to be on the financial side, they're essentially salesmen and their clients are the product they're peddling. It's the same in any industry, you get some who are pretty genuine and look to get the customer the best product for their needs but there are far more out there who only care about getting the biggest commission they can.

Replacing Thelwell looks like a pretty obvious move given recent recruitment but I'd rather it was done by bringing in a superior person in his role, someone internal who'll always have the clubs interests as his priority, rather than just going to some bloke with a contact book who happens to have some fancy names in it, names that are completely irrelevant at this stage.

You keep making massive assumptions Mark and you're not having your finest 24 hours on here are you?

I agree with your sentence on Thelwell but there is no reason a good DoF wouldn't have several friendly agents who can place their players in the club, in fact it would be a damn good bonus if you could get a really good working relationship with them.

Anyway, back on topic, I thought we pressed the ball very well as a front 3 last night, pressed it very badly as a midfield 3 and still looked shaky when any ball came into the box. Before Perch got himself sent off I thought we were second best all over the place but I was glad we were pressing and forcing QPR into mistakes, we just let them have the ball when Polter put himself up against Stears and we gave their midfield acres of space to move the ball around. The latter was more to do with Coady and Edwards not having brains quick enough to see what was happening and they both ended up waving their arms around a lot at others after they ran back.

We lacked that person to put their foot on the ball higher up the pitch, Saiss was doing it in the defensive third and the back part of the midfield but we had nobody in the final or upper midfield third to be available for the ball and move it effectively. That would be a Henri Lansbury, Jacob Butterfield, Jordon Mutch or Lee Evans type of player (Oh for a Championship version of Yohan Cabaye), if we could keep the ball higher up the pitch I think our front three would run riot as they did last night albeit to mixed results. Edwards played well second half but he isn't a footballer and if you play him you need footballers beside him. Conor Coady is not that footballer.

We clearly have 3 number 10's on the books in Prince, Edwards and Tex with Prince the natural successor to Edwards and Tex the one with the brains. We are still imbalanced and I think we are only 4 players away from a very good side (GK, CB, LB, CM).

On an odd note and something I will probably get pilloried for, I actually think Doherty could be the central midfielder we are looking for in that he is decent on the ball, can drive forward very well, has an eye for a pass and strikes the ball beautifully from distance and he looks a hell of a lot better in the central areas thean he does at LB. I'm surprised we haven't at least tried him there in a reserve game. I think all of his defensive frailties would be forgiven in the middle and he isn't the most mobile but neither are Dave Jones or Kevin MacDonald.

 

[Tredman]

r.

On an odd note and something I will probably get pilloried for, I actually think Doherty could be the central midfielder we are looking for in that he is decent on the ball, can drive forward very well, has an eye for a pass and strikes the ball beautifully from distance and he looks a hell of a lot better in the central areas thean he does at LB. I'm surprised we haven't at least tried him there in a reserve game. I think all of his defensive frailties would be forgiven in the middle and he isn't the most mobile but neither are Dave Jones or Kevin MacDonald.

He's too lazy to play in CM, he's probably too lazy to play football full stop imo.

There was one point last night where he had got forward and ran the ball out of play. QPR got the ball and started attacking down his side - the lazy feckin git was still standing behind the goal line doing nothing.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Doherty did play central midfield for the Irish U21s. Like Tredman says though his pathetic levels of application would rule him out of playing there at this level.

 

[Johnny75]

He's too lazy to play in CM, he's probably too lazy to play football full stop imo.

He did look like he gave a shit at the end of last season and I think if you get his mental state right he'd be a good player. (I can't believe I'm defending Doherty)

Having said that for some reason he wouldn't pass to either Costa or Cav last night I couldn't work out why and then he stopped over lapping Cav completely when Iorfa was doing the same very effectively with Costa.

He does need to sort himself out though or he'll be replaced.

Edit:

Doherty did play central midfield for the Irish U21s. Like Tredman says though his pathetic levels of application would rule him out of playing there at this level.

Didn't know that, was he any good?

 

[Nando]

Offensive midfielders would have a field day running off Doherty.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

We OWN a chunk of his business. It is in his interests that it works out well with us.

What difference does it make? It's not like Fosun are propping up Gestifute, what's the worst they can do if he sent Wolves a load of duds? Judging by the current footballing decisions it's not like they'd even realise they'd be dealt a bad hand and jump on Mendes anyway.

You keep making massive assumptions Mark and you're not having your finest 24 hours on here are you?

I agree with your sentence on Thelwell but there is no reason a good DoF wouldn't have several friendly agents who can place their players in the club, in fact it would be a damn good bonus if you could get a really good working relationship with them.

It's not like I'm the first people to make an assumption on the internet, it's not like anyone on here is involved in the club's day to day affairs so everything is based on a fair chunk of conjecture.

I can see plenty of merit in clubs building a relationship with clients, you keep them sweet and hopefully they'll push your club as a favourable location for any of their players you ever want to sign, but I wouldn't that want that to extend as far as giving them any control, if you had Thelwell or a replacement going to Mendes and requesting specific clients that they've identified then that's fantastic, the club have made the footballing decision and you're hoping Mendes can do the business side of it with his client.

 

[Jamwolf]

I liked the way that Lambert dealt with Cav when he subbed him. Nothing like a good hug. If Lambert can get the dressing room on his side, it will be a big help.
One player I have to hand it to is Edwards. Great goal, and a rather skillful turn to almost score another. Amazing how he's raised his game this year, when others have gone the other way. I've always thought that Dave should only be brought on as a last 20 min player who might nick a goal on the blindside, but he's been worth his starting place this year. Albeit in a very moderate team.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Didn't know that, was he any good?

Never saw any of the games. 4 goals in his 8 caps but they could be off set pieces or anything, I genuinely don't know.