Norwich (A) 31/10 Build-Up Thread #bogeyteam #mayaswellnotbother

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Right i'll bite on the stats. The % of pass completion is nothing without the context in which the passes were played. Miranda without a doubt definitely plays more passes forward which is going to lead to him giving the ball away more when DB's passes go to Coady or Doherty 99% of the time and they do.

Totally different players and positions but it backs the stats up, Gundogan has Man City's best pass completion % for a midfielder at something like 89% whereas KDB's pass completion is at 82% but i know who the better player is and i know who plays the better passes and therefore creates more. Now Miranda isn't KDB but like is aid he definitely plays more forward passes and expansive passes like the Forest one than DB does. If you don't agree then you aren't watching the same players and are just arguing for the sake of it. There's a lad who puts passing networks on after most Wolves games if not all, they prove that Miranda plays the ball forward more in to midfield and into the forward players. Take a look at those.

So 99% of DBs passes go to Doc or Coady? You and i both know that's bollocks.

Also comparing Gundogon with KDB? Not really apples with apples is it. One is a very attacking midfielder, one less so.

Batth and Miranda however play in the same (albeit mirrored) positions.

Does Miranda have a substantially higher chance creation ratio? As for pass maps I'd be interested to see them.

For the record, Miranda does appear to be the better footballer (better touch), but it's clear that in their positions neither Batth or RM are required to or ordered to be anything other than conservative with their passing, as to me they don't try anything out of the ordinary, this is why i think too much emphasis is put on DB and RMs passing abilities from fans when they talk about who is better as i don't think it makes a huge amount of difference. As out and out defenders though, I'd take Batth every time.

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[Elephant Pyjamas]

The reason I ask is that local media and social media could very easily influence your view, if you have seen most of our games this season and still reach the same conclusion then it is quite surprising IMO.

Please don't take things the wrong way, if nothing else you have sparked quite a healthy debate IMO.

Fair enough. [emoji108]

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[Alan]

As out and out defenders though, I'd take Batth every time.

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That is a staggering conclusion, it really is.

 

[slink]

So 99% of DBs passes go to Doc or Coady? You and i both know that's bollocks.

Also comparing Gundogon with KDB? Not really apples with apples is it. One is a very attacking midfielder, one less so.

Batth and Miranda however play in the same (albeit mirrored) positions.

Does Miranda have a substantially higher chance creation ratio? As for pass maps I'd be interested to see them.

For the record, Miranda does appear to be the better footballer (better touch), but it's clear that in their positions neither Batth or RM are required to or ordered to be conservative with their passing, as to me they don't try anything out of the ordinary, this is why i think too much emphasis is put on DB and RMs passing abilities from fans when they talk about who is better as i don't think it makes a huge amount of difference. As out and out defenders though, I'd take Batth every time.

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Maybe 99% was a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point, the majority of his passes go there and the passmaps prove it. 11tegen11 on twitter is your friend. Also proves Miranda plays a lot more passes in to midfield than DB does and he also plays more balls into the front player whether that be Bonatini, Cav, Jota etc when DB plays very little if any in some games. These are stats with context rather than meaningless percentages.

Ok KDB has the lowest pass completion of any Man City midfielder and yes i've seen the stats. He's still been their best player and his pass completion rate is lower because he plays more forward passes which was my point anyway.

Personally i think Miranda is better than DB defensively too and has proved that recently, i think he was better defensively in all of the last 3 league games. I know people disagree that's fine but i've not seen one good argument why when i've put forward reasons why i think that.

 

[StuardoWulf]

Fucking hell what a borefest / anybody remember the upcoming Norwich game, think we sold out now will be difficult I guess if we lose we have to beat Fulham on Friday. I am working in Norwich this week they all seem confident that they are on the up. I would take a draw probably.

 

[east-coast-wolves]

Nuno didn't pick Batth at the start of the season on merit, so I'm sure will happily drop him now on merit. Captaincy obviously is not a big factor.

Danny's pass percentage will be higher as he plays safer passes, as he knows like we do that he is just not a ball player. That's his limitation and he plays within it, exactly as he should. However, this leads to the false impression that his higher pass percentage means he's a better ball player than Miranda. Not true.

Also someone mentioned Miranda isn't a goal threat I think? Hasn't he had a few near misses this season? Memory tells me he should have had one or two. Not a big point but a correction I thought worth making.

I also drop into the camp that I'd take Hause over either of them when he's fully ready to go though.

All that said, they way they're all currently playing, I'd back any of them to do a decent job in the upcoming fixture.

 

[playtheace]

$#@!ing hell what a borefest / anybody remember the upcoming Norwich game, think we sold out now will be difficult I guess if we lose we have to beat Fulham on Friday. I am working in Norwich this week they all seem confident that they are on the up. I would take a draw probably.

Hallelujah
.....back to the thread title.

Norwich play out from the back and couldn't cope when 2/3 Derby players repeatedly pressed them high last Saturday.

The fans reckon they need to change their game plan for home matches and they all seem pretty depressed with CJ upfront.

Now back to the Batth v Miranda show.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Norwich City have been getting better results on their travels than at Carrow Road. I do not know if that is a fair reflection of how they have played, but they seem to struggle to score on their own ground. An early Wolves goal could well result in the fans becoming restless, as they apparently were against Derby County.

 

[Tony Towner]

As nobody is disputing the pass completion stats, just the validity of whether they demonstrate whether that equates to being a better passer or not then one thing Batth should be praised for is rewiring his game to pass the ball - be it simply, rather than hoofing. Personally defensively since Boly's injury I think Batth has been the better player. I think Miranda can be bullied in the air on the crossed ball, see Leon's goal at Sheffield for another example. I think they are both OK to decent Championship centre halves and as I said earlier neither would play in my first choice back three, but both would be good back up options.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I think Mranda is a jinx- discuss

No only kidding- dont.

Take a 1-1 tonight whever plays. Ruddy will be man of the match.

 

[playtheace]

I think Mranda is a jinx- discuss

No only kidding- dont.

Take a 1-1 tonight whever plays. Ruddy will be man of the match.

I think the black strips are a jinx...I struggled to make out our players v QPR
let's get rid of the black strip* now!

Batth's pass completion in the black strip is awfully low in comparison to when he wears gold.





* 'cept for tonight we're it will stand out against the yellow of Norwich.

 

[b3h]

1-2 Jota any time.

 

[nimrod]

As nobody is disputing the pass completion stats, just the validity of whether they demonstrate whether that equates to being a better passer or not then one thing Batth should be praised for is rewiring his game to pass the ball - be it simply, rather than hoofing. Personally defensively since Boly's injury I think Batth has been the better player. I think Miranda can be bullied in the air on the crossed ball, see Leon's goal at Sheffield for another example. I think they are both OK to decent Championship centre halves and as I said earlier neither would play in my first choice back three, but both would be good back up options.

maybe it's also a sign of what better coaching and focus in a particular area can do.

feeling nervous about tonight's game after the qpr result. as frank says, getting the first could be massive.

 

[Tony Towner]

Absolutely, but whereas others such as Edwards and Dicko couldn't change their game to suit Nuno's requirements Batth has to the best of his ability

 

[nimrod]

Absolutely, but whereas others such as Edwards and Dicko couldn't change their game to suit Nuno's requirements Batth has to the best of his ability

yep. it's great he's embracing the approach. and i hope this is the methodology of the club for the rest of my days.

 

[Lord Knows]

Hallelujah
.....back to the thread title.

Norwich play out from the back and couldn't cope when 2/3 Derby players repeatedly pressed them high last Saturday.

The fans reckon they need to change their game plan for home matches and they all seem pretty depressed with CJ upfront.

Now back to the Batth v Miranda show.

Norwich try and play out from the back but its a struggle because their centre backs and holding midfield players lack quality on the ball.
They require a few players like Miranda to enable quicker passing through the team and more fluency.

 

[playtheace]

Norwich try and play out from the back but its a struggle because their centre backs and holding midfield players lack quality on the ball.
They require a few players like Miranda to enable quicker passing through the team and more fluency.

 

[malta mick]

is tonight's match available on wolves tv for a fiver - can't get a link on OS

 

[Kenny]

is tonight's match available on wolves tv for a fiver - can't get a link on OS

Should be

Games not on in the next month - Fulham, Reading & Blues

https://www.wolves.co.uk/news/club/20171030-wolves-tv-during-november/

 

[Lord Knows]

Tonights ref Darren England sent off Elliot Bennett at the weekend. The only time he has done a Wolves game was the final match of last season against Preston.