Loan Watch 2015/2016

[Tony Towner]

Anyone I ever listen to that knows about U21 football says that the style and tempo doesn't prepare youngsters for first team football and they learn a lot more playing lower league football against men. Equally if they are on loan they should only get picked if they deserve their place. We have a lot more to complain about McAlindon's lack of game time than Klopp does about Ojo's.

 

[big mean bunny]

Anyone I ever listen to that knows about U21 football says that the style and tempo doesn't prepare youngsters for first team football and they learn a lot more playing lower league football against men. Equally if they are on loan they should only get picked if they deserve their place. We have a lot more to complain about McAlindon's lack of game time than Klopp does about Ojo's.

I haven't seen enough of the u21's league to comment, although my retort to my mate was if Jordan Ibe would be as close to the first team 11 as he is now how it not been for his opportunity to play for Derby.

 

[PuntsWolf]

In other countries it is different as they play B team football. In this country kids playing against Kids obviously isn't the same. I'm sure he will soon realise this.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The B teams are drifting away in German football, Dortmund II got relegated from the third tier last season and there are currently only two (Stuttgart and Bremen) at that level - and they're 17th and 20th at the moment, so struggling badly. The Regionalliga system below that where the rest of the top flight B teams sit is around Conference North/South standard.

 

[PuntsWolf]

So where do the reserves play otherwise ?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

There's no reserve league - as I say the B teams are mostly dotted about the fourth tier and below. Their fourth tier is nowhere near as strong as the equivalent level here and it drops exponentially as you go further down.

When I say they're drifting away, I mean they're playing at lower and lower levels these days. They're barred from going any higher than 3.Liga, if I was being generous I'd equate that with League Two and most B teams are playing lower than that. Leverkusen and Eintracht Frankfurt have done away with their B team altogether.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Yeah but what I mean is where do these young players play? If Klopp says they don't loan them out in Germany and the B teams are playing at a poor level, where do the young players get decent playing time.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Short answer is they don't. They arrange friendlies through the season, they get some gametime in the cup, but broadly speaking if they're not getting in the first team then they aren't doing much. Although German teams run much lighter squads on the whole than you find over here.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Well it's not like they aren't producing decent young players. Maybe our players would benefit from staying within their clubs getting the best coaching and best facilities rather than going to a L1 or L2 side where you'd expect coaching and facilities to be poorer?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The problem here (with a lot of clubs anyway) is that if there's a bad run of results, or an injury crisis, managers won't throw a couple of kids in. Certainly in the Premier League. They'll either have loads and loads of experienced squad players, or they'll play someone out of position, or shift the whole team around.

 

[YoungWolf]

Less players in a squad means the others who don't make it can drop down and get their chance at other teams. Quite a few players get released by the big clubs in Germany and have gone on to do very well or even be re-signed? Happens in Spain too, whereas here that doesn't seem to happen. Talent just gets hoovered up.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, young players don't get stuck at a big club and sat on the bench for years by and large. Bayern sold Hummels for €4m for instance.

Best way forward for me in the immediate term would be to ban loans between Premier League clubs.

 

[malta mick]

Agreed DW. I've said for years now that PL teams have the money, and so must buy rather than loan.

 

[YoungWolf]

The loan system is flawed really. I know some clubs lower down get by loaning players to keep them afloat but if clubs didn't just sign all the top young talent they might actually have some of their players as their own.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

There anyway you could limit the size of reserve squads? Similar to the 25 man squads that have to be submitted for the PL. Might stop some from accumulating so many players, though the likes of Chelsea loaning out tens of players to feeder clubs wouldn't be too bothered I suspect.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I suspect they'd sign them up and just not register them if they were allowed to still farm young players out as much as they liked. The bigger issue for me is when they have someone like Victor Moses, three straight seasons out on loan, he's 25 next month, clearly no real future at Chelsea so why is he still their player? Use him or sell him.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Do they still do the co-ownership deals on Italy? Suppose that sort of thing could eliminate some of those Moses style problems.

If Chelsea had effectively just put a deposit on him and left him at Palace for two years then they probably wouldn't have bothered signing him outright after another couple of years.

So Palace still get a bit of bunce, Moses gets to carry on playing for another few years in a familiar, competitive environment and Chelsea don't end up bulking their squad needlessly.

No doubt there'd be other problems come from those types of deals though.

 

[Nando]

No, they got binned off this year.

 

[big mean bunny]

I had to look them up but I remembered Dortmund released Reus and then rebrought him, was playing for Rot Weiss Ahlen, who ever they are! can't say I have ever seen them on Fifa!

I suppose Vardy is a tad similar? I can't find it now but a mate I know showed me a program from a game ( I can't recall if he played in it actually or just had it) that was Grays versus some other team and there was about 5 or 6 people that had gone on to have prem apps and a few others that had decent careers. Kightly was on it and so was Hooper who are the ones I can remember.

 

[Jolemai]

Saville extended until 6th January.