Leicester 1-0 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Norman Deeley]

Sporting Index currently predicting we'll finish 9th with a spread of 53 to 54.5 points.

 

[Jinky]

I’m struggling how people can’t see the correlation with “we kept them at bay” and “but didn’t really trouble them”.

They didn’t need to over commit after they’d already scored after 15 minutes. Leicester knew that as long as they didn’t gift us anything then we’d struggle, pretty much like we are if we go 1 up. It’s also pretty easy for us to be solid if you’re always going to have at least 6 outfield players behind the ball. This leads to the front 3 playing terribly as they are so isolated and unable to maintain any form of possession.

And as we play the low block, If we ever do win possession you are limited to the quick counter as your whole team is so deep. This leads to Neto or whoever literally having to run into blind alleys as there’s no one to pass to. And then he runs down the alley he’s got even less options as the rest of the team haven’t pushed up with him. The rare instance we do maintain possession it goes all the way back to the start leading to an awful hoof forward and loss of possession.

I’m not really sure what “transition” there is. We still play low block but are now not even that effective on the counter.

I agree entirely with this post.

There was a point in the 88th minute when we are 1-0 down - and Coady and Kilman are knocking it around on the half way line, then move it across to Boly, then back to Coady. I was screaming for some movement up top, but then Fabio drops back to the half way line and miss-controls it and we lose possession. It was appalling to watch.

I mean, even route 1 football at that point might be more effective and get us an equaliser. But we showed no interest in peppering their goal or putting any pressure on Kaspar (who is an excellent keeper). We made it so bloody easy for them.

If it's like that in the second half when you are chasing a game, and in the first half we have an xG of 0.02, we aren't going to win games of football very often.

 

[Premier Quality]

Dermot Gallagher saying the first shouldn’t have been a penalty

Ref Watch: Were handball decisions right?

Former Premier League referee Dermot Gallagher gives his verdict on the handball controversies involving Liverpool defender Joe Gomez at Manchester City and Wolves defender Max Kilman at Leicester.

www.skysports.com

 

[Norman Deeley]

I agree entirely with this post.

There was a point in the 88th minute when we are 1-0 down - and Coady and Kilman are knocking it around on the half way line, then move it across to Boly, then back to Coady. I was screaming for some movement up top, but then Fabio drops back to the half way line and miss-controls it and we lose possession. It was appalling to watch.

I mean, even route 1 football at that point might be more effective and get us an equaliser. But we showed no interest in peppering their goal or putting any pressure on Kaspar (who is an excellent keeper). We made it so bloody easy for them.

If it's like that in the second half when you are chasing a game, and in the first half we have an xG of 0.02, we aren't going to win games of football very often.

The other player I scream at on that basis is Rui, who is so bloody slow at moving the ball sometimes. Now that may be because there's a lack of movement in front of him, but when you're one down with 10 minutes to go you need to get the ball up the pitch. Watched Alisson in L/pool game and his distribution was much quicker.

 

[Deano]

Still not entirely sure what this "transition to new style" is tbh - there's been talk of becoming a team who dominate possession but I can't see that at all from how we have played so far this season. We are hardly dominating the ball in games and in the first half yesterday we couldn't string 3 consecutive passes together.

We look pretty much the same as last season in style except there's no interplay at all between the front 3.

 

[Tony Towner]

Still not entirely sure what this "transition to new style" is tbh - there's been talk of becoming a team who dominate possession but I can't see that at all from how we have played so far this season. We are hardly dominating the ball in games and in the first half yesterday we couldn't string 3 consecutive passes together.

We look pretty much the same as last season in style except there's no interplay at all between the front 3.

I think it's been more obvious in some games than others. The West Ham game was a good example of us attempting to play higher up the pitch and dominate possession. The lack of pre season meant we got found out leaving holes in behind. Since then i think it's more of a gradual process. Palace was the outlier as they chose to ignore how we play.

It's been said by countless people, but we can't play 343 with Semedo and RAN the same way as we would Doherty and Jonny. They are there to provide the width. The Inside forwards need to play more centrally and Raul stop coming too deep because he's frustrated.

I have every confidence that if Nuno had the pre season he did in his first year it would be drilled into them. I have even more confidence that with the right personal it would work better in a 3412

 

[lemonjelly]

I think it is going to take longer to adapt our style than some/many hoped.

Across the last 20 games, we're averaging 2 points a game pretty much. So all in all, the fluctuations in perceptions seems unusual. After wet spam there was one group saying everything is terrible, then win a couple, and the reverse is being put across.

I think we're inbetween. We're a mid table premier league team. As a result, we'll be inconsistent, and win some we shouldn't, likewise lose some we shouldn't too. We're playing against top sides week i week out.

I hadn't realised the volume of clean sheets we had however, and I do feel that could become a bit of an Achilles heel.

Of greater concern to me has been Rauls form for this season. He hasn't been quite on it imo. Hopefully it is a short blip. But he's dropping far too deep far too often imo. We're already struggling in some games to get players into the box. He has to be in there.

Leicester are a year or so ahead of us, and although they controlled a lot of the game, it was without creating much. Schmeichal had as much to do (neto save, fofana's interception, traore shot, neves save) as Rui (and rui faced 2 pens!)

Whilst I understand peoples frustrations (and some of these will be exacerbated by covid), remember that for the majority of the past 40 years we've been in shit leagues vs shit teams. For the first time in my proper supporting life, we are genuinely competing against the creme de la creme. This is what many of us have always wanted - to be able to go toe to toe with the best.

My concern if we have another year without getting into europe, is who would we risk losing? Right now, if we lost Rui I'd be mortified. There will be others who'd look at options too if we didn't make europe.

 

[The Bear]

Still not entirely sure what this "transition to new style" is tbh - there's been talk of becoming a team who dominate possession but I can't see that at all from how we have played so far this season. We are hardly dominating the ball in games and in the first half yesterday we couldn't string 3 consecutive passes together.

We look pretty much the same as last season in style except there's no interplay at all between the front 3.

The first half against Newcastle we had something like 70% possession. It was only when we sat back and let them knock it around in front of us the stats evened out.

 

[Deano]

The first half against Newcastle we had something like 70% possession. It was only when we sat back and let them knock it around in front of us the stats evened out.

That's because Newcastle are shite though. Fulham had more possession than us - yesterday was around 50 percent. Leeds totally dominated the ball against us. There's no pattern to say we are dominating possession at all.

 

[Premier Quality]

I have every confidence that if Nuno had the pre season he did in his first year it would be drilled into them. I have even more confidence that with the right personal it would work better in a 3412

I think 3-4-1-2 is probably where we’ll end up - we are really bad at the moment at playing through the lines centrally, relying on the wing backs creating something or the front 3, but there’s a huge gap between neves and Donk, and the front 3. (Although Donk does try to support, he just doesn’t have the technical ability to do it when he gets there).

I think Neto has kind of been asked to bridge that a bit, with Pod up with Raul, but it’s not really working at present.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I think it's been more obvious in some games than others. The West Ham game was a good example of us attempting to play higher up the pitch and dominate possession. The lack of pre season meant we got found out leaving holes in behind. Since then i think it's more of a gradual process. Palace was the outlier as they chose to ignore how we play.

It's been said by countless people, but we can't play 343 with Semedo and RAN the same way as we would Doherty and Jonny. They are there to provide the width. The Inside forwards need to play more centrally and Raul stop coming too deep because he's frustrated.

I have every confidence that if Nuno had the pre season he did in his first year it would be drilled into them. I have even more confidence that with the right personal it would work better in a 3412

I don't think the difference between 343 and 352/3412 should be so stark.

Dependent on the individuals in the team it should be relatively easy to interchange somewhat between the two, particularly if starting as the former. Nothing to stop say Neto or Podence dropping in deeper to link the play, particularly if they're already playing more centrally as they should be anyway, then the other one tucks in tighter to Jimenez at those times to act more like a front two. Same if you're playing as a front two with a man behind, the free midfielder might drift around into wider areas or a forward might pull wide to create space for the late run from that midfielder.

It should all be fairly fluid and players interchanging between the lines to some extent, that's what causes teams problems, movement into areas where the defending player doesn't want to go. It gives a decision to make, occupy their space or stay with their man, at the moment Wolves movement and position all feels too rigid and predictable, I can't imagine it takes opponents too long to figure out the run of things and then they can easily adjust to suit. You know the back three will be nailed to the halfway line, Neves will rarely stray outside of touching distance, the wingbacks and wide forwards barely come within the width of the penalty area so that just leaves Jimenez and Dendoncker to keep an eye on if anyone looks like putting a cross in.

The whole shape just needs a bit of fine tuning, it's all too disjointed. Central midfield gets evacuated as Neves comes deep and Dendoncker goes the opposite way, the wide forwards spend more time playing like wingers than they do attacking midfielders so there's rarely any interplay centrally. Look at the difference between Maddison/Praet yesterday compared to Neto/Podence/Traore, how often did the Leicester duo end up trying to take on Wolves' wingbacks? They left the wide areas clear for their wingbacks and they overloaded the middle instead.

Feels like everything is just set up for going around the outside of teams and then hoping to pick out the needle in a haystack of Jimenez with a cross, maybe Dendoncker if he's got in there too. You come up against a narrow compact 442 like Palace with the freedom of the flanks and you'll get plenty of chances to probe, you face a Newcastle or Leicester who defend the full width of the pitch and you just hit dead end after dead end down the flanks with nothing in the middle to compensate.

 

[AndyWolves]

It doesn't help that Neves is too slow to really get forward and it results with Donck being asked to be the greatest CM ever.

352 sounds like a good plan b if we're being snuffed out down the wings but requires either Neto or Podence to become a forward and the other a number 10

 

[prawnking]

Neves played well against Palace but generally this season if we're not retaining possession and he isn't creating chances, let alone assists or goals, he's just a luxury Donk, isn't he?

 

[Premier Quality]

Neves played well against Palace but generally this season if we're not retaining possession and he isn't creating chances, let alone assists or goals, he's just a luxury Donk, isn't he?

No, because he plays a completely different role.

neves is the shield in front of the defence, and dictates play from deep, switching play and offering support for moves in our half, using his passing range to get us moving further forwards.

Donk is a box to box defensive player - using his non stop running to close players down anywhere on the right hand side of the pitch, and getting forward to act as a target man where possible.

ideally for the man in Donks position you’d have someone with more technical ability to link play, but to have that and donks defensive attributes would cost a LOT of money

 

[prawnking]

No, because he plays a completely different role.

neves is the shield in front of the defence, and dictates play from deep, switching play and offering support for moves in our half, using his passing range to get us moving further forwards.

Well that's what he should be doing, but for the majority of this season it's only really the first bit that's been coming off.

What I'm saying is, should we not be expecting more from him given his reputation?

 

[AndyWolves]

Well that's what he should be doing, but for the majority of this season it's only really the first bit that's been coming off.

What I'm saying is, should we not be expecting more from him given his reputation?

We can't expect Neves to do things he can't. If there is no one pass to there isn't much he can.

It's times like this that you need someone who is dynamic to influence the game and can run with the ball centrally. Neither Neves nor Donck can do this and Neto / Pod are out wide.

 

[prawnking]

We can't expect Neves to do things he can't. If there is no one pass to there isn't much he can.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate a little here, but I feel Neves gets cut slack and escapes a lot of scrutiny in a way few others do, certainly not, say, Adama.

I'm not expecting him to do things he can't do, I'm just not sure he's doing the things he can do all that often right now

 

[Carrotdude]

It does get frustrating to hear the players/Nuno saying that we started slow and we need to do better after every game (apart from the two games we started well in). It feels a bit like if the diagonal to the wingbacks isn’t available we don’t know how to keep meaningful possession.

I thought we were fine in the second half yesterday and if a couple of balls drop the right way we get an equaliser and probably a fair result but we just aren’t going to score enough goals this season to do anything more than 9th/10th imo.

I want Adama to start and get him running centrally more, he frightens the shit out of people and it will naturally create more space for Raul and Neto.

 

[Premier Quality]

Well that's what he should be doing, but for the majority of this season it's only really the first bit that's been coming off.

What I'm saying is, should we not be expecting more from him given his reputation?

I think he does do that, and fills his role well - he’s always there shielding, it’s asking a lot for him to be there, and in the ten role at the same time, because if he’s in on the edge of the box and they break, then he’s not in position to shield the defence.

he would work best with someone like Bruno Fernandes who can take the ball with his back to play or under pressure and either run with it or keep the ball moving with one touch passes - That’s not Donks game, hence why I think Neto is trying to drop in to fulfil that role.

I don’t think Neves has been the problem for us - he’s sometimes too deep near our centre backs when we’re playing a team with a deep block, but apart from that, he’s been good this season so far.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm playing Devil's Advocate a little here, but I feel Neves gets cut slack and escapes a lot of scrutiny in a way few others do, certainly not, say, Adama.

I'm not expecting him to do things he can't do, I'm just not sure he's doing the things he can do all that often right now

Thing is I've easily seen Neves have 50 good games for us, in fact it's a lot more than that.

Does not apply to Adama who probably hasn't had 30 good games.