Keir Starmer at it again..

[Elephant Pyjamas]

His name's Keir. Y'know, like Keir Hardie

Well done, you picked up on a typo

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not behind anything, I do understand the mechanics of it though. We aren't going back into the EU before 2030, are we.

Why did Corbyn never set out any kind of anti-Brexit argument in 2015 and 2016, at all?

 

[prawnking]

Well done, you picked up on a typo

Two typos, Mr 'Facts', you did it the previous time

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I'm not behind anything, I do understand the mechanics of it though. We aren't going back into the EU before 2030, are we.

Why did Corbyn never set out any kind of anti-Brexit argument in 2015 and 2016, at all?

I understand it too, but it does look like a climbdown given the justified handwringing in the past.

That was the huge problem at the time wasn't it, complacency, no one stood up hard enough to the bullshit that Farage and others pushed.

However

In a speech in London, Mr Corbyn said: "We, the Labour Party, are overwhelmingly for staying in, because we believe the European Union has brought investment, jobs and protection for workers, consumers and the environment.
"But also because we recognise that our membership offers a crucial route to meeting the challenges we face in the 21st century, on climate change, on restraining the power of global corporations and ensuring they pay fair taxes, on tackling cyber-crime and terrorism, on ensuring trade is fair with protections for workers and consumers and in addressing refugee movements."

 

[prawnking]

It was political suicide to suggest there should be another referendum.

Political suicide?

Like cosying up to Hezbollah, Hamas or Raed Salah?

Or refusing to sing the National Anthem?

Or saying you wouldn't push the nuclear button under any circumstances?

Or presiding over the deterioration of the party into a very public anti-semitic shit show?

Or allowing your Shadow Chancellor to start reading from Mao's Little Red Book at the despatch box?

Seems like Jeremy isn't as squeamish about flirting with a bit of the old political suicide as you make out?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Two typos, Mr 'Facts', you did it the previous time

To be honest I've always had a problem with my "I"s and "E"s.

And yes I'm full Benitez in this instance rather than just quoting other people's opinion as facts like you have today.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I understand it too, but it does look like a climbdown given the justified handwringing in the past.

That was the huge problem at the time wasn't it, complacency, no one stood up hard enough to the bullshit that Farage and others pushed.

However

In a speech in London, Mr Corbyn said: "We, the Labour Party, are overwhelmingly for staying in, because we believe the European Union has brought investment, jobs and protection for workers, consumers and the environment.
"But also because we recognise that our membership offers a crucial route to meeting the challenges we face in the 21st century, on climate change, on restraining the power of global corporations and ensuring they pay fair taxes, on tackling cyber-crime and terrorism, on ensuring trade is fair with protections for workers and consumers and in addressing refugee movements."

I wouldn't put Corbz anywhere near the end of the villain scale where Brexit is concerned. But he didn't do enough, that's inarguable in my book.

Abbott has been closer to him than any colleague over the last 40 years (no grim sexual innuendo intended) and she thinks he's a Brexiteer.

 

[prawnking]

To be honest I've always had a problem with my "I"s and "E"s.

And yes I'm full Benitez in this instance rather than just quoting other people's opinion as facts like you have today.

Erm... You started the discussion off by quoting several reporters from the Independent, and then waffled on about Andy Burham.

Not very good at this 'nuance' stuff, are you?

 

[prawnking]

BTW I love how you refer to the actual Labour Party website summarising the findings of the report (with a link to the full report) as 'other people's opinions'

It's the fucking Labour Party if you think they're wilfully misrepresenting the findings then why don't you email them and complain?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Political suicide? - yes, 2017 and to a greater extent 2019 were hugely about Brexit.

Like cosying up to Hezbollah, Hamas or Raed Salah? - I think trying to understand groups like this is a positive step to peace, it's what got us peace in Ireland. Just blowing the shit out of one another forever doesn't work, you need to get around a table. There's always been a lack of maturity about this.

Or refusing to sing the National Anthem? Daft, but I understand it, our national anthem is a disgrace. It's not about the country its about one person.

Or saying you wouldn't push the nuclear button under any circumstances? - it's an odd one isn't it? I wouldn't want to press a button that kills 250,000 people either, it's odd that someone who says they'd do this is seen as the good guy.

Or presiding over the deterioration of the party into a very public anti-semitic shit show? - I wrote a long response to this, but what's the point?

Or allowing your Shadow Chancellor to start reading from Mao's Little Red Book at the despatch box? - yep a very, very bad joke, much like the much derided note left by the 2010 government. This wouldn't have even registered on most people's radar though.

Seems like Jeremy isn't as squeamish about flirting with a bit of the old political suicide as you make out? - as i make out?
JC has loads of flaws, but I'm 100% certain we'd have endured a much better experience over the last few years with him at the helm rather than May, Boris, Truss and Sunak and i don't feel Starmer is the "centrist" he's been heralded as either.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

Corbyn had a great manifesto in 2017 but no matter how many attempts you gave him, he wouldn’t win an election.

I don’t know what Starmers manifesto will be but can only assume it will be poorer in comparison. However, it seems he is on course to win a majority and his government will be infinitely better than anything we’ve had in the past 13 years so I will happily take that.

 

[prawnking]

To be honest I've always had a problem with my "I"s and "E"s.

You certainly seem to have a problem with recognising and calling out ante-simitesm, I'll give you that

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Erm... You started the discussion off by quoting several reporters from the Independent, and then waffled on about Andy Burham.

Not very good at this 'nuance' stuff, are you?

Erm. I didn't try and misrepresent opinions about the Forde report as facts from it like you did though did I.

I presented the links and then took "facts" from them that backed up and proved my case.

You just clicked the button a few times mostly.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Corbyn had a great manifesto in 2017 but no matter how many attempts you gave him, he wouldn’t win an election.

I don’t know what Starmers manifesto will be but can only assume it will be poorer in comparison. However, it seems he is on course to win a majority and his government will be infinitely better than anything we’ve had in the past 13 years so I will happily take that.

True fact.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You certainly seem to have a problem with recognising and calling out ante-simitesm, I'll give you that

Well, we're in the opinion rather than fact territory again aren't we.

 

[Tredman]

Corbyn had a great manifesto in 2017 but no matter how many attempts you gave him, he wouldn’t win an election.

I don’t know what Starmers manifesto will be but can only assume it will be poorer in comparison. However, it seems he is on course to win a majority and his government will be infinitely better than anything we’ve had in the past 13 years so I will happily take that.

Far too sensible a post for this thread.

 

[prawnking]

Erm. I didn't try and misrepresent opinions about the Forde report as facts from it like you did though did I.

I presented the links and then took "facts" from them that backed up and proved my case.

You just clicked the button a few times mostly.

I think your problem with comprehension may go beyond 'i' s and 'e's

We both posted newspaper links, I posted a Labour Party website link also.

You quoted the opinions in the newspaper links, as I did with mine.

You obviously believe that when you quote third party opinion it counts as fact, but when others do it, it doesn't. Bizarre.

The only time you quote the report directly is to pull a quote that was already contained in my Guardian link, and which actually backed up my point, which was that factionalism and vested interests in both sides were at play, rather than people trying to throw the election so Magic Grandpa couldn't get in power and save the world.

Pages 77 and 78, for any who wants to check the facts

 

[prawnking]

Well, we're in the opinion rather than fact territory again aren't we.

Actually no, there are very specific definitions of anti-semitism that are adopted by governments and political institutions.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You surely understand that the stuff in quotes within the quotes is directly lifted from the report, it describes what happened. It's not opinion?

Whereas you directly quoted the opinion of the author and said it was from the report - it wasn't.

That's where all this facts and opinion stuff has come from, I'm not sure if you're on a wind up at this point, as I know you are more intelligent than this.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Erm. I didn't try and misrepresent opinions about the Forde report as facts from it like you did though did I.

I presented the links and then took "facts" from them that backed up and proved my case.

You just clicked the button a few times mostly.

That's his signature move.