Keir Starmer at it again..

[Deutsch Wolf]

Well, maybe.

I think Miliband would have done at least as well against May, quite possibly better.

 

[prawnking]

Yet you alluded to McDonnell giving ammunition to the right wing press?

The point I was making is that when the far left don't get in, it's always the stupid electorate, or the media, or traitors in their own party. I'm not denying that our media is generally cuntish.

So if you're smart, and serious about getting into Government and making change, you don't give them more fuel, right?

What McDonnell did was just a fucking tone deaf Student Grant thing to do. Laughable to consider people like that could form a government in the 21st century.

Anyway, the McDonnell incident happened in 2015, two years before the Great Victory of 2017, so it can't have been that grievous a blow

 

[Templeton Peck]

You literally blamed the media for Corbyn leading Labour into virtual political oblivion and guaranteeing we still have these Tory/UKIP cunts in power till the end of next year at least

Was Corbyn perfect? No. Was he a massive breath of fresh air after years of Thatcherite consensus, race to the bottom and whacking off to austerity? 100%. He wasn't supposed to have a prayer. 2017 was far too close to call so the media ramped everything up. Do you think Murdoch owns papers for the fun of it?

 

[prawnking]

Was Corbyn perfect? No. Was he a massive breath of fresh air after years of Thatcherite consensus, race to the bottom and whacking off to austerity? 100%. He wasn't supposed to have a prayer. 2017 was far too close to call so the media ramped everything up. Do you think Murdoch owns papers for the fun of it?

Sorry, I stopped reading at 'fresh'

 

[Templeton Peck]

Well, maybe.

I think Miliband would have done at least as well against May, quite possibly better.

Ed's strategy in 2015 was to pretty much agree with everything. Lost Scotland by then too which didn't help.

 

[leedswolf]

Well, maybe.

I think Miliband would have done at least as well against May, quite possibly better.

The Milliband who can't eat a bacon sandwich properly?

 

[Templeton Peck]

The point I was making is that when the far left don't get in, it's always the stupid electorate, or the media, or traitors in their own party. I'm not denying that our media is generally cuntish.

So if you're smart, and serious about getting into Government and making change, you don't give them more fuel, right?

What McDonnell did was just a fucking tone deaf Student Grant thing to do. Laughable to consider people like that could form a government in the 21st century.

Anyway, the McDonnell incident happened in 2015, two years before the Great Victory of 2017, so it can't have been that grievous a blow

You were the one telling me the public are right wing so it's futile to try and do anything left of Blair. I disagree. When an alternative was available (without media spin) plenty of people voted for it.

 

[leedswolf]

The point I was making is that when the far left don't get in, it's always the stupid electorate, or the media, or traitors in their own party. I'm not denying that our media is generally cuntish.

So if you're smart, and serious about getting into Government and making change, you don't give them more fuel, right?

What McDonnell did was just a fucking tone deaf Student Grant thing to do. Laughable to consider people like that could form a government in the 21st century.

Anyway, the McDonnell incident happened in 2015, two years before the Great Victory of 2017, so it can't have been that grievous a blow or Labour to become serious about being in government they stop being Labour.

When the Tory policies become unpalatable, it's Labour's fault for being too left wing. The mob in charge since 2019 is equally if not more laughable.

 

[prawnking]

You were the one telling me the public are right wing so it's futile to try and do anything left of Blair. I disagree. When an alternative was available (without media spin) plenty of people voted for it.

How did Corbyn's first term as PM go?

 

[leedswolf]

How did Corbyn's first term as PM go?

Similar to Howard's, Hague's and IDS's I would imagine.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Corbyn should have stood down in 2017, he was leader by default - last man standing on the left of the party that for decades had put forward a token candidate for leader. He was a figurehead for something different to the status quo but he was a lame duck and a sitting duck post 2017. He was not an effective leader and he did not have the self awareness and nor was he savvy enough to avoid the shit thrown at him, and some of that shit was self defecation.

The problem for Labour at the time is that there was nobody obviously in the wings who would have been any more effective and neither the left or right of the party would have been able to coalesce around an alternative. The 2019 election campaign was a complete mess with policies made up as they went along against a Conservative promise to “get Brexit done”. It was a complete mismatch.

I still believe there is a place for democratic socialism in this country, but Starmer is not and will never be an advocate for that. I will “hold my nose” because it is better than the Tories, but I won’t be “holding my breath” for anything…

 

[prawnking]

When the Tory policies become unpalatable, it's Labour's fault for being too left wing. The mob in charge since 2019 is equally if not more laughable.

Who's saying that? I think the Tories are failing on their own terms and irrespective of what Labour are doing. Pushed it way too far.

Both far right and left will only get so far in this country, it's generally a pretty moderate place politically speaking imo.

I'm not a huge fan of Starmer, but at least the likes of him and Reeves seem competent and not just geriatric students

 

[prawnking]

Similar to Howard's, Hague's and IDS's I would imagine.

So he's a failed leader like them?

 

[leedswolf]

So he's a failed leader like them?

Yes? As is any party leader who doesn't deliver. I don't believe that's ever been disputed. The reasons for that failure (like any other leader's failure) is up for debate.

 

[leedswolf]

I'm not a huge fan of Starmer, but at least the likes of him and Reeves seem competent and not just geriatric students

You make good political points, but then have to devalue them with these type of comments. It doesn't help IMO. Similar to other poster's cheap jibes about 'left wing cranks', etc.

 

[Templeton Peck]

You make good political points, but then have to devalue them with these type of comments. It doesn't help IMO. Similar to other poster's cheap jibes about 'left wing cranks', etc.

'Competent' as well. Christ. What does that look like in policy terms?

 

[prawnking]

You make good political points, but then have to devalue them with these type of comments. It doesn't help IMO. Similar to other poster's cheap jibes about 'left wing cranks', etc.

For balance, I did call the current government the C word earlier...

 

[Johnny75]

Corbyn should have stood down in 2017, he was leader by default - last man standing on the left of the party that for decades had put forward a token candidate for leader. He was a figurehead for something different to the status quo but he was a lame duck and a sitting duck post 2017. He was not an effective leader and he did not have the self awareness and nor was he savvy enough to avoid the shit thrown at him, and some of that shit was self defecation.

The problem for Labour at the time is that there was nobody obviously in the wings who would have been any more effective and neither the left or right of the party would have been able to coalesce around an alternative. The 2019 election campaign was a complete mess with policies made up as they went along against a Conservative promise to “get Brexit done”. It was a complete mismatch.

I still believe there is a place for democratic socialism in this country, but Starmer is not and will never be an advocate for that. I will “hold my nose” because it is better than the Tories, but I won’t be “holding my breath” for anything…

David Milliband or Andy Burnham?

 

[leedswolf]

For balance, I did call the current government the C word earlier...

Fair comment. At least you don't use passive aggresive tactics like others...

 

[Templeton Peck]

Corbyn should have stood down in 2017, he was leader by default - last man standing on the left of the party that for decades had put forward a token candidate for leader. He was a figurehead for something different to the status quo but he was a lame duck and a sitting duck post 2017. He was not an effective leader and he did not have the self awareness and nor was he savvy enough to avoid the shit thrown at him, and some of that shit was self defecation.

The problem for Labour at the time is that there was nobody obviously in the wings who would have been any more effective and neither the left or right of the party would have been able to coalesce around an alternative. The 2019 election campaign was a complete mess with policies made up as they went along against a Conservative promise to “get Brexit done”. It was a complete mismatch.

I still believe there is a place for democratic socialism in this country, but Starmer is not and will never be an advocate for that. I will “hold my nose” because it is better than the Tories, but I won’t be “holding my breath” for anything…

2017 might have been an odd time to go as Labour were ahead in the polls and remained so until 2018 when it was level pegging most of the time. Both parties fell off a cliff in 2019 but once Johnson got in with 'Get Brexit done' it was over.