Is Bruno Lage A Good Manager Or Should He Go?

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Go on then, pick out 10 objectively good performances. You'll be doing a fair bit of reaching.

What's the point? This is like Doherty, it doesn't matter what happens your mind is made up. You don't do "objective" when you get to this stage.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

If we had finished the season in the top half with average form throughout then I think that the general concensus would be positive, but 11 points from our last 14 games, players obviously checking out, terrible team selections, none discernable pattern of play other than sideways, awful or none existent substitutions can't be ignored, neither can momentum. If we'd started the season with that record he'd have been sacked.

I don't think Bear is disagreeing with you, and I know that my argument is that it hasn't been the thoroughly miserable season so many of you seem to be saying it has. It's been a miserable couple of months, yeah. But there have been good moments this season, to say otherwise is recency bias turned up to 11.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

No one's said it's been unremitting misery.

The first three games are wildly overrated but there were plenty of good signs. United away was superb and Spurs away a very good, controlled performance. West Ham at home was good as was Watford (allowing for how shit they are). We didn't deserve to beat Villa away but it's a great moment, and we totally bossed them at home.

It's just that most of it has been awful.

 

[Tony Towner]

There were worrying signs early on from games we won or should have. Everton and Newcastle we absolutely bossed and then sat so far back we were wobbling by the end. Leeds away we tried to hang onto a 1-0 from about 10 minutes in. Tried the same at Arsenal and the season died from there.

As said earlier Brunoball, totally unexpectedly, is all about the result, you don't get it then you are going to get buried

 

[jd1981]

A league table isn't a stat.

There aren't false positions after 37 games.

No you’re right but just looking at the table and assuming everything is ok is simplistic.
Sheff Utd 2020 & Watford 2019 are your examples of sides whos league position at the end was good but their form was dreadful to finish off with.
Tell me what Bruno has done different that makes him stand above the previous regime?

 

[The Bear]

We've had bad patches of results or form, the same as every other midtable team. We've also had good performances and runs of form, the same as every other midtable team.

We won 3 league games in a row twice this season. We also lost 3 games in a row twice this season.

The point being, we're fairly mediocre in the grand scheme of things, we don't score many goals, and we've had a crap run of form at the end of the season. Yet we still had a good shot at Europe and we had a great defence until recently.

It's hard to know why we've stunk out the place recently. Players losing form, the manager making bad decisions, injuries to key players, the club not refreshing the squad quickly enough, etc.

I'm not willing to chuck the towel in yet though.

 

[Johnny75]

We've had bad patches of results or form, the same as every other midtable team. We've also had good performances and runs of form, the same as every other midtable team.

We won 3 league games in a row twice this season. We also lost 3 games in a row twice this season.

The point being, we're fairly mediocre in the grand scheme of things, we don't score many goals, and we've had a crap run of form at the end of the season. Yet we still had a good shot at Europe and we had a great defence until recently.

It's hard to know why we've stunk out the place recently. Players losing form, the manager making bad decisions, injuries to key players, the club not refreshing the squad quickly enough, etc.

I'm not willing to chuck the towel in yet though.

Our current form has us in the bottom 3 for the last 12 games.

That's roughly a third of the season and shows it isn't a blip.

 

[jd1981]

We've had bad patches of results or form, the same as every other midtable team. We've also had good performances and runs of form, the same as every other midtable team.

We won 3 league games in a row twice this season. We also lost 3 games in a row twice this season.

The point being, we're fairly mediocre in the grand scheme of things, we don't score many goals, and we've had a crap run of form at the end of the season. Yet we still had a good shot at Europe and we had a great defence until recently.

It's hard to know why we've stunk out the place recently. Players losing form, the manager making bad decisions, injuries to key players, the club not refreshing the squad quickly enough, etc.

I'm not willing to chuck the towel in yet though.

This isn’t a bad patch it’s a dreadful run of form, last 3 home games we’re not even doing the very basics out of possession ie picking up runners, closing down and being first to any second ball.
We look really badly organised especially when chasing games.
We’ve got a forward who’s not fit for purpose who’s getting a regular appearance.
Two things are equally terrifying we start the season with Bruno in charge or we trust the board to appoint a good manager.

 

[jd1981]

I also think Bruno is getting an easier ride is because we’re in zero jeopardy of relegation.
If he’s in charge going into next season and this form continues he’ll be lucky to survive until October especially If we are in the bottom 3 panic will set in and the ground will turn toxic.

 

[SSB]

Why does that matter though?

I was in the South Bank yesterday and sang Bruno Lage's barmy army. I still want him gone though. It's just noise, trying to create an atmosphere. Most of the fans I spoke to yesterday shared the same view as me, that his football is boring and he's out of his depth.

I sang the “Barmy Army” bit, just omitted the rest. I may revert back to “Jack Hayward’s” if he’s still here next season.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

A league table isn't a stat.

There aren't false positions after 37 games.

Every single stat says that position doesn’t match our play. You carry on cheerleading though because unless there is significant change next season is going to be a dumpster fire.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

A league table isn't a stat.

There aren't false positions after 37 games.

Toss a coin 37 times ten times. I’ll bet you don’t get 19 heads or tails! Relatively small sample size means there’s bound to be some deviation. Stats such as XG and Sa’s over performances suggest we’ve got more heads than 19.

 

[t3ch]

It's fair to say that, like all of our seasons up, there are interesting statistical anomalies worth discussing. Ex., first season back we were giant killers. This season we couldn't score in a brothel, had a good/lucky GK, and had a good D record that carried us (re: the table) for the rest of the campaign. You can say tables don't lie, but it's not like that's always the whole story. Sport wouldn't be very interesting if that's all there was.

I'd be more willing to let some of the Lage slump slide if the team didn't look like it was actively getting worse for basically the entire last third of the season. We went from being the best defense outside of City to conceding ridiculous goals in near every game. The strange decisions, persistence with some players, not playing much differently than the previously fired manager, etc... I don't have a strong opinion on thinking him leaving is the only option (there are other points like who would the replacement be, etc.), but I won't shed tears if he does.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

No you’re right but just looking at the table and assuming everything is ok is simplistic.

I'm not.

I'm arguing with the statements that it's been an "awful all season" or words to that effect.

Every single stat says that position doesn’t match our play. You carry on cheerleading though because unless there is significant change next season is going to be a dumpster fire.

Who am i cheerleading?

This isn't binary, i think Lage has lost the players and needs to go, I also recognise that there were periods in this season where we weren't anywhere near as bad as some of you are saying.

Apologies for not towing the TWF line, and agreeing with the nonsense that a position after 37 or 38 games might be a false position. Or that the good saves Sa was making don't count, perhaps the saves that Allison has made because he is really good, and the goals that Salah has scored because he is really good shouldn't count either. I mean Liverpool are surely in a false position too by that addled logic!

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Our xGa is 15 worse than the actual goals conceded, it's an enormous disparity, no one else is even close, in fact it's a historical chasm.

It's like when Stam's Reading outperformed every single possible metric. Guess what happened in the end...

 

[Throbber2]

There seems to be the reverse debate going on here now to one on the race for the top four thread where a couple of posters openly shot down our chances of europe stating, basically , that we were over performing and that we could not keep up those stats for the season. They got a bit of a slap down then but now it appears that those posts were close to the mark. We have looked very ordinary by and large most of the season. I cant think of 10 good performances and if I could , 4-5 would be losses. I just cant see Fosun changing their model. They will buy young and sell for a profit and keep one of their men in charge and on a leash.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Our xGa is 15 worse than the actual goals conceded, it's an enormous disparity, no one else is even close, in fact it's a historical chasm.

It's like when Stam's Reading outperformed every single possible metric. Guess what happened in the end...

But i am at no disputing we are likely to struggle next season!?!

 

[AndyWolves]

https://www.wolvesforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/everton-0-1-wolves-verdict-thread.37765/

Picked at random, people genuinely talking about Europa conference. We've been shite since then, but we haven't been shite all season.

 

[jd1981]

Hypothetical question if Bruno left this summer which PL club would look at it think yep he would improve us compared to who we’ve got now?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Every single stat says that position doesn’t match our play. You carry on cheerleading though because unless there is significant change next season is going to be a dumpster fire.

It's ironic that you were so pissed with the press for not acknowledging us as a potential Champions League contender.