Is Bruno Lage A Good Manager Or Should He Go?

[big mean bunny]

Bruno has overachieved this season based on the squad he has. Nuno finished 13th with practically the same players.

I don't think he has. I am convinced Nuno would be in a similar position if he was still here. We've seen vastly different Everton, Leeds, Leicester and Villa sides for a start from last year. And I can't help but feel Jiminez might have been better with Nuno during his recovery phase he is clearly still in, at least somewhat.

 

[Dire Wolf]

I think we should be running another poll alongside this one: Fosun, should they stay or should they sell? For me I'd happily see them sell to someone who wants to finish the project they started. They clearly have no interest in competing at the top level any more and Jeff Shi is massively out of his depth.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I don't think he has. I am convinced Nuno would be in a similar position if he was still here. We've seen vastly different Everton, Leeds, Leicester and Villa sides for a start from last year. And I can't help but feel Jiminez might have been better with Nuno during his recovery phase he is clearly still in, at least somewhat.

I don't think Nuno is the answer, we saw what he delivered last season without any punch on the counter. That continued across to Spurs with Kane having little interest at the start of the season.

I don't see any reason to think he makes Jimenez a different player to what he is now.

 

[Deano]

I said a while ago that I wasn't enjoying this season. Even a lot of the wins have been very uninspiring performances. The home games gave been on the whole awful and that's been reflected in the atmosphere at the ground.

If we managed to sneak 7th and in turn European football you can just about accept the horrific style as a means to an end with the (most likely blind faith) hope of future change of style. If you finish 8th then it's all for nothing. The order of where you finish in the mid table spots isn't really important at all, if you're going to finish mid table then the aesthetics definitely matter because it's all you have to look forward to, especially when you've put in poor performances in the cup competitions.

The people who have described us being 8th as "built on sand" are bang on the money. We are not the 8th best team, this isn't reactionary to a bad defeat either. In fact some of us just the other day were saying that Brighton are a better side than us and yesterday was absolute proof. We are in a false position through a mixture of having a keeper with outlying stats and outperforming expected points.

I'd say the poll on here isn't representative of the views of the majority of fans at the moment, a lot seem to still be in the mindset of he's got some attacking masterplan and just hasn't got the players but it's worrying the amount of times the club has re iterated Lage's desire to sign Hwang who is shocking and not at all fit for purpose.

Lage would have joined Wolves in the knowledge he wasn't going to get "the backing" a lot of Wolves fans want him to get and the only way he gets anything meaningful in the summer is by selling Neves which presents its own problems. Anyone expecting a huge turnover in players is going to be disappointed, they've released a number of (very patronising) soundbites basically telling you there's going to be no external funding.

 

[The Bion]

To be clear, the players are not (nor should be) exempt from criticism. A number of them turned in their worst performances of the season yesterday, and a number of them have had repeated stinkers during this run we've been having (a few even before that)

But..the fight has gone. The togetherness has gone, the camaraderie (and I don't mean the cringe videos pratting around for youtube) has gone, and ultimately the man responsible for that is Bruno. The team was always more than the sum of its parts, but no longer, and we are seeing that stripped away in real time.

I see Hoddle being mentioned a lot, and I get it, but to me at the moment this looks very Stale-ish (pun not intended) - as mentioned, once the rot starts it has to be taken out root and branch. I do suspect there are some in the group who have grown too comfortable and are probably clashing with Bruno behind the scenes as he wants to change things - but as the manager you have to manage that, and he doesn't seem able.

A couple people elsewhere and on here have pointed to the Hoever call-out - we did seem to be on the slide before that, but, the slide seemed mostly if not exclusively to do with tactics, team selection, etc. I do agree though that I think he lost the dressing room at that point and it has just exacerbated the spiral further downwards.

I do actually think there is a hint of a decent coach in there somewhere, but his position is untenable.

 

[sycophantia]

One of the biggest concerns with him for me is his post match interviews. Usually I pay very little attention to them, they're largely nonsense (that's all of them including Nuno) but the last few are not only full of lies, he also seems to be saying he doesn't know what else to do with the players, it's his job, we are not going to sign a team full of players that fit with his ideas so he has to get a tune out of what he's got, he's shown that he can't. Time to get rid but god knows who we'll get in.

 

[sycophantia]

To be clear, the players are not (nor should be) exempt from criticism. A number of them turned in their worst performances of the season yesterday, and a number of them have had repeated stinkers during this run we've been having (a few even before that)

But..the fight has gone. The togetherness has gone, the camaraderie (and I don't mean the cringe videos pratting around for youtube) has gone, and ultimately the man responsible for that is Bruno. The team was always more than the sum of its parts, but no longer, and we are seeing that stripped away in real time.

I see Hoddle being mentioned a lot, and I get it, but to me at the moment this looks very Stale-ish (pun not intended) - as mentioned, once the rot starts it has to be taken out root and branch. I do suspect there are some in the group who have grown too comfortable and are probably clashing with Bruno behind the scenes as he wants to change things - but as the manager you have to manage that, and he doesn't seem able.

A couple people elsewhere and on here have pointed to the Hoever call-out - we did seem to be on the slide before that, but, the slide seemed mostly if not exclusively to do with tactics, team selection, etc. I do agree though that I think he lost the dressing room at that point and it has just exacerbated the spiral further downwards.

I do actually think there is a hint of a decent coach in there somewhere, but his position is untenable.

From what I've seen this season, he's a number 2 at best. We've seen a few times he comes up with a plan that works, won some games, scored a few goals, but his in game management is terrible, I really think I could do better and I'm a football tactics numpty.

 

[The Bion]

Some things have improved. Defensive set pieces for example. But it seems accepted wisdom is that is down to Roberts, not Bruno.

Some players have played better than we have seen before - Kilman a notable example. Is that specifically down to coaching, or is it just natural progression of a young player? Not sure.

Some youth players have been blooded, e.g. Gomes and Cundle, and put in some good performances. Nuno for whatever reason seemed especially reluctant to do this at the best of times, so some credit for integrating them in (albeit they should probably be playing more now we have nothing to play for - and/or would they have performed any worse than what we saw yesterday?)

But there are several things that are glaring problems with game management etc that we can all see, so no need to go over them again. The negatives outweigh the positives, unfortunately.

 

[leedswolf]

From what I've seen this season, he's a number 2

So it seems...

 

[Lupollet]

Shi is the root cause.

 

[Del Woppio]

He's the fourth biggest problem at the club, behind Shi, Sellars and a chunk of the playing staff. He's still a massive problem, and I'd probably have a bit more optimism if he was sacked - but there's no point in doing that until the other three problems are addressed.

 

[Deano]

I don't think Shi is going anywhere. As long as we are safe in the league I don't think anyone else from Fosun will be that fussed. In turn Sellars and all of the other team Shi has assembled are safe too. Shi has said he thinks that team of chancers is stronger than at any point since they bought the club.

Dalrymple may have just been a PR guy but since that line of communication has been gone the relationship between the club and fans is getting gradually worse.

 

[Sniffer]

He lost me after the Hoever comments throwing a young player under the bus when the side he picked was useless.
He was championed as a manager who would improve younger players but he’s done the opposite. Gomes played well and hasn’t been seen since, RAN had a good spell and was sidelined after the Leeds game, Chiquinho did well in cameos but doesn’t get opportunities. I also feel sorry for Silva who in most of his appearances has been given little support due to the personnel around him.
I thought he may have cracked it with the extra midfielder at Tottenham to change to a system that suits when needed but he’s continued to shoe-horn in his favoured players into the eleven that has left us completely disjointed.
The Shiite recruitment hasn’t helped or the odd injury here and there but the form over the last 10 games is firmly on Lage and like others I dread carrying this into next season.

 

[Lupollet]

He's the fourth biggest problem at the club, behind Shi, Sellars and a chunk of the playing staff. He's still a massive problem, and I'd probably have a bit more optimism if he was sacked - but there's no point in doing that until the other three problems are addressed.

100 agree. I’ve thought this for two or three years now.

trouble is I can’t work out whether he’s just an incompetent chancer who dropped lucky or he’s actually a professional acting on Fosun’s instructions.

I am pretty convinced it’s the latter - when there was investment, optimism, excitement and we had all the big boys worried, then Jeff was pretty upbeat and outgoing - since ‘the project’ vanished he’s basically been an accountant implementing austerity.

I think Shi is here for as long as Fosun own the club, which I don’t think will be for much longer.

 

[big mean bunny]

I don't think Nuno is the answer, we saw what he delivered last season without any punch on the counter. That continued across to Spurs with Kane having little interest at the start of the season.

I don't see any reason to think he makes Jimenez a different player to what he is now.

Because Jiminez is a player he had previously worked with and gotten the best from.

Conte at Spurs and Jackson at Burnley are two examples of a manager getting the same players to play in different ways to previous managers, not always massively different but it's noticeable, whilst not successful Watford with Hodgson is similar, as is the way Palace are now with Vieria.

The idea that with different players Lage's system will just work, isn't something I am fully behind. He has the perfect opportunity to just move to his system now and see if any of the players can function in it, if not he needs 20 new players.

 

[Tony Towner]

He was championed as a manger who would improve younger players but he’s done the opposite.

So he needs to go away

 

[AndyWolves]

The squad seemingly downing tools two seasons in a row is a concern too. We're nowhere near good enough to be able to do that

 

[Tony Towner]

100 agree. I’ve thought this for two or three years now.

trouble is I can’t work out whether he’s just an incompetent chancer who dropped lucky or he’s actually a professional acting on Fosun’s instructions.

I am pretty convinced it’s the latter - when there was investment, optimism, excitement and we had all the big boys worried, then Jeff was pretty upbeat and outgoing - since ‘the project’ vanished he’s basically been an accountant implementing austerity.

I think Shi is here for as long as Fosun own the club, which I don’t think will be for much longer.

A highly competent business person which I'm sure he probably is should be able to run the administrative side of a football club. It's when he thought he could do the football side and made his ridiculous Fabio comments and then doubled down on them that he lost me. At a similar time he got rid of the high ranking people atbtbe club that were pre Fosun and surrounded himself with his cabal of smug sycophants.

In reality the biggest issue is the club outgrew the Mendes funnel of players without growing enough to enter the thoughts of the players who are in his top tier. Beyond that we have next to nothing

 

[jd1981]

Firstly my 1997 self would seriously question why I’m asking for a manager to leave when we’re 8th in the PL.
I’m not asking him to go based on that it’s based on what’s to come next season.
The football and form right now is roughly where we’d expect next season to go.
Bare in mind we’ve played average to bottom half sides since Feb.
If we review the season we started of the first 5 games trying to play attacking football it fell apart v Brentford do we reverted to a more pragmatic style. We’ve occasionally put in some good displays, Everton, West Ham home and Man Utd away spring to mind.
The sliding doors moment was the 3 games in autumn where Bruno and the side fell out the luck tree and hit every branch on the way down.
Newcastle home very lacklustre and could’ve easily gone the other way. Villa away an atrocious performance for 80 minutes then 15 minutes of plain madness from Villa.
Leeds away just awful went into park bus mode after 10 minutes he got 7 points when 1 point would’ve been more accurate.
Had he got just 1 point he’d have been on verge verge.
Yesterday was reminiscent of Burnley at home last season or games under Terry Connor.
Said it in the verdict thread sitting behind the goal second half gave you really good view of how disorganised we were huge gaps in all areas. The second goal in particular was just so easy and you could see from a mile off.
The stat around falling behind is just horrendous you can forgive Arsenal away and Leeds at home as they were last minute goals.
If you score less than games played you seriously need to review where you’re heading.
Signings of Hwang and Trincao on loan have been a disaster, allowing Traore out on loan MGW leaving us with 3 CM was just baffling.
The football has unsustainable and now it’s proving.
I want a change and if Forrest don’t go up would like Steve Cooper, proper coach who can get the most from his squad. Yes never managed in the PL but his pedigree is far more appealing U17 World Cup winner with England took an average Swansea side to play off final and has turned Forrest around massively in a few months.
Won’t happen though it’ll be another uncle Jorge client.
The club is flawed at the top not enough football brains advising the decision makers.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Because Jiminez is a player he had previously worked with and gotten the best from.

Conte at Spurs and Jackson at Burnley are two examples of a manager getting the same players to play in different ways to previous managers, not always massively different but it's noticeable, whilst not successful Watford with Hodgson is similar, as is the way Palace are now with Vieria.

The idea that with different players Lage's system will just work, isn't something I am fully behind. He has the perfect opportunity to just move to his system now and see if any of the players can function in it, if not he needs 20 new players.

I think in Jimenez's case it's far deeper than simply a new managers tactics not getting the best of him. He's a different man to what he was 18 months ago.