Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

[croxdenabbey]

As far as I'm concerned, Labour always produces an undesirable left of centre government. A huge public sector plus unlimited immigration, mixed with a sprinkle of increased EU integration equals disaster. A Tory/UKIP coalition would be fantastic next time around. Hopefully it'd be a government that'll sort this mess out and restore meritocracy to this country.

Jesus Christ! The nightmare that would just about finish us! That would be the worst scenario, ever.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Don't often come on the 'political' threads as sitting behind a keyboard rather than 'face to face' often produces more extreme views than would otherwise be the case.

As to immigration - whilst there are undoubtedly areas where this has caused issues re numbers that cannot be assimilated easily, it really doesn't affect the majority of this country to the same effect.

Housing - yes the sell off of social housing is an issue, but mainly due to the fact that local authorities were not initially allowed to use the receipts to replace the stock sold. Private house builders will build when they can make money (don't have a problem with that as without any profit they will fold) - since the crash in 08 they haven't been able to so they didn't build. They can now so they are (which is why there is a shortage of bricks) - not sure what you would expect any private company to do.

Welfare - there is an issue with 'in work' benefits. Not sure why anyone sees this purely as companies taking advantage of the system to pay low wages. I work within local government & have at least 20% of my support staff receiving in work benefits (work in education so all support jobs are part time & term time only, so not paid for a full year. None of them could do the job unless their pay was topped up). So the Government takes advantage of these rules as much as industry does. Yes there are abuses of the system & they make good newspaper headlines, but as a percentage of the total bill are very small.

Overseas workers taking UK citizens jobs - chance would be a fine thing. Most employers just want someone who turns up on time, wants to work & has some interest in what they are doing. Most industry in the UK is small business, my son ( who owns a small car body repair business) has been trying to get a decent apprentice for the last 4 months. Had 2 through a reputable training organisation (that he did his apprenticeship with 11 yrs ago) both UK born & bred - neither lasted more than 2 weeks as couldn't put down their I Phones or accept that initially some of the jobs they need to do are not great & that for the initial 18 mths they are a drain on the business (despite some support from Central/Local Government there is still a cost to the firm). TBH he wouldn't care where the next candidate came from as long as he/she (mustn't be sexist) showed the right attitude to achieving success (it can be done as he has gone from being an apprentice to part owning the firm within 11 years)

 

[Penk Wolf]

The taking your brothers piece of cake when he isn't watching metaphor, is on about the multinationals who use up all the resources, without any thought for the future.
The running and running, without knowing where they are going metaphor, is relating to multinationals who keep building and building and getting bigger and bigger. They don't think about the future or the consequences for the people who have to live there.

Maybe Gandhi put it better.

“The earth, the air, the land and the water are not an inheritance from our fore fathers but a loan from our children. So we have to handover to them at least as it was handed over to us.”

I can see why you left the Country if you think this is true, but in truth you're miles away from it.

Good post by Parkin.

 

[Templeton Peck]

UKIP bloke caught talking about poofters, peasants and chinkies. Thank god he didn't tweet a picture of a house.

 

[Parkins left foot]

In reality if UKIP have 19% of the vote that will give them little at a GE in a 'first past the post' system. If they have 3 MPs after then (and that includes the current 2, who if they stand again probably have a reasonable chance of retaining their seats) they will have done well. Won't buy them any influence though.

However, cannot see past a coalition of some kind (who's in it is any one's guess) after May. Not particularly concerned with that as it may deter massive lurches to one side or the other which will destabilise the country.

The bigger worry for me is a large scale SNP rout of Labour which will give them undue influence over the rest of us south of the border.

 

[thehistorymakers]

In reality if UKIP have 19% of the vote that will give them little at a GE in a 'first past the post' system. If they have 3 MPs after then (and that includes the current 2, who if they stand again probably have a reasonable chance of retaining their seats) they will have done well. Won't buy them any influence though.

However, cannot see past a coalition of some kind (who's in it is any one's guess) after May. Not particularly concerned with that as it may deter massive lurches to one side or the other which will destabilise the country.

The bigger worry for me is a large scale SNP rout of Labour which will give them undue influence over the rest of us south of the border.

So your quite happy that UKIP with 19% have no influence, but don't like it when SNP with a relative small percentage of the vote rout Labour out of Scotland. Strange concept of democracy. If I am allowed to say that from a few thousand miles away?

 

[Parkins left foot]

So your quite happy that UKIP with 19% have no influence, but don't like it when SNP with a relative small percentage of the vote rout Labour out of Scotland. Strange concept of democracy. If I am allowed to say that from a few thousand miles away?

First past the post system has never been about Democracy - its about who wins.

Is it the system I would prefer - probably not, but its what we have got & unless one of the major parties decides they need to alter the system (and realistically they will only do so if they believe it will benefit them & they would only propose this when they are in power with a mandate) then its what we have to work with.

Doesn't give a fair reflection of political view in the country, but then never has.

Don't think that I said that I was happy with the percentage of votes taken affecting how much influence any particular party had, merely that that is the state of play under the current system

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The selling point of first past the post is that it produces definitive governments one way or the other and we don't end up with the country run by people with divergent and conflicting ideals. This was the case for a long, long time - it fit what it said on the tin.

Clearly the landscape has now changed and the system is no longer fit for purpose, but as much as I personally would like a PR based system (even though currently I wouldn't like the result, as UKIP would have a level of power completely disproportionate to how relevant they really are) it is not going to change any time soon.

 

[thehistorymakers]

First past the post system has never been about Democracy - its about who wins.

Is it the system I would prefer - probably not, but its what we have got & unless one of the major parties decides they need to alter the system (and realistically they will only do so if they believe it will benefit them & they would only propose this when they are in power with a mandate) then its what we have to work with.

Doesn't give a fair reflection of political view in the country, but then never has.

Don't think that I said that I was happy with the percentage of votes taken affecting how much influence any particular party had, merely that that is the state of play under the current system

i don't think you have ever made a personal insult to me, just because your opinion is different to mine. I read your posts, which are very balanced, even though sometimes I don't always agree with all your opinions. I still respect your views and can understand why you think like you do.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Not sure that UKIP will win anything like as much as their current rating at the GE if their candidates are anything like the one I talked to when he canvassed before the Euro elections.

Could not expand on any policy apart from Europe & ended up mumbling & then walking away.

 

[Parkins left foot]

i don't think you have ever made a personal insult to me, just because your opinion is different to mine. I read your posts, which are very balanced, even though sometimes I don't always agree with all your opinions. I still respect your views and can understand why you think like you do.

Didn't think I had tonight either - strange comment

 

[thehistorymakers]

The selling point of first past the post is that it produces definitive governments one way or the other and we don't end up with the country run by people with divergent and conflicting ideals. This was the case for a long, long time - it fit what it said on the tin.

Clearly the landscape has now changed and the system is no longer fit for purpose, but as much as I personally would like a PR based system (even though currently I wouldn't like the result, as UKIP would have a level of power completely disproportionate to how relevant they really are) it is not going to change any time soon.

Even though you pulled me up once for my grammar, which was merited at the time. I agree with most of your political views, which might surprise you. However, I have a problem with something you have said in your above post.

If you would like a PR system and UKIP got 19% of the vote. How would UKIP have a level of power disproportionate to how relevant they are?
Surely Under PR, 19% of the vote would show their exact relevance?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

They shouldn't be attracting such levels of support given their complete failure to produce any coherent economic or social policies to date - their strength in the polls is at odds with what they have put up for public consumption. However that is the fault of a politically illiterate electorate and a supine media more than anything else.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Didn't think I had tonight either - strange comment

Sorry maybe I didn't make that very clear. I don't think you have ever, meant never. Meaning you don't use personal insults,when you don't agree with someones opinion.

 

[thehistorymakers]

They shouldn't be attracting such levels of support given their complete failure to produce any coherent economic or social policies to date - their strength in the polls is at odds with what they have put up for public consumption. However that is the fault of a politically illiterate electorate and a supine media more than anything else.

I Agree with all that, but I would also include the main parties ineptitude over the recent past.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Not sure the relevance of 'insults' and 'pulled me up on grammar' have on the discussion.

 

[Johnny75]

UKIP bloke caught talking about poofters, peasants and chinkies. Thank god he didn't tweet a picture of a house.

Was it Malky Mackay or Dave Whelan?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Not sure the relevance of 'insults' and 'pulled me up on grammar' have on the discussion.

I think I said that the person hadn't ever made a personal insult and that I could see why he thought what he did , even though I didn't agree with his opinion. Which seems fair enough to me.
I don't see how personal insults, just because you don't agree with someone elses opinion ever add to the discussion. But they happen on this forum and nothing is said , which I am fine with.

 

[thehistorymakers]

.

Overseas workers taking UK citizens jobs - chance would be a fine thing. Most employers just want someone who turns up on time, wants to work & has some interest in what they are doing. Most industry in the UK is small business, my son ( who owns a small car body repair business) has been trying to get a decent apprentice for the last 4 months. Had 2 through a reputable training organisation (that he did his apprenticeship with 11 yrs ago) both UK born & bred - neither lasted more than 2 weeks as couldn't put down their I Phones or accept that initially some of the jobs they need to do are not great & that for the initial 18 mths they are a drain on the business (despite some support from Central/Local Government there is still a cost to the firm). TBH he wouldn't care where the next candidate came from as long as he/she (mustn't be sexist) showed the right attitude to achieving success (it can be done as he has gone from being an apprentice to part owning the firm within 11 years)

Chris Bryant Labour immigration minister.13 de ago. de 2013 -


Chris Bryant, the shadow immigration minister, will single out Tesco and Next in a keynote speech on Monday in which he plans to attack “unscrupulous employers whose only interest seems to be finding labour as cheaply as possible”.
He will accuse companies of operating policies which “seem to deliberately exclude British people”. In extracts of the speech seen in advance by The Sunday Telegraph Mr Bryant accuses both Tesco and Next of hiring foreign workers in Britain on cheaper rates than British staff.
The speech comes as Labour looks to make a major intervention in the current immigration row which has seen Conservative ministers criticised by the opposition after the Home Office sent out vans carrying posters warning illegal migrants to “go home or face arrest”.
Ed Miliband, the Labour leader, has been accused of letting his party defend illegal immigrants in the wake of the row. The issue is one of the concerns over his leadership highlighted by a straw poll of his MPs in The Sunday Telegraph.
On Monday Mr Bryant plans to turn the tables by attacking both Theresa May, the Home Secretary, over “gimmicks” and large British companies for “exploiting migrant workers” and making it impossible for “settled workers in Britain” to compete.

Mr Bryant is expected to use his speech to claim: “The biggest complaint I have heard, from migrants and settled communities alike, is about the negative effects migration can have on the UK labour market. And I agree.
“It is unfair that unscrupulous employers whose only interest seems to be finding labour as cheaply as possible, will recruit workers in large numbers in low wage countries in the EU, bring them to the UK, charge the costs of their travel and their substandard accommodation against their wages and still not even meet the national minimum wage.
“That is unfair. It exploits migrant workers and it makes it impossible for settled workers with mortgages and a family to support at British prices to compete.”
Mr Bryant plans to train his fire specifically on Tesco, the UK supermarket chain whose revenues are the third-highest of any retail company in the world and which employs more than 290,000 staff in Britain - a quarter under the age of 25.
Last year an announcement that Tesco would create around 20,000 more jobs in Britain was hailed as a “massive confidence boost for the UK economy” by David Cameron.
Mr Bryant plans to say: “Take the case of Tesco, who recently decided to move their distribution centre in Kent. The new centre is larger and employs more people, but the staff at original site, most of them British, were told that they could only move to the new centre if they took a cut in pay.
“The result? A large percentage of the staff at the new centre are from Eastern bloc.”
Mr Bryant is then due to accuse Next, which has around 540 British stores and employs about 54,500 people, the large majority of them in the UK, of targeting cheap imported Labour using leaflets printed in Polish.
Extracts from his speech say: “Look at Next PLC, who last year brought 500 Polish workers to work in their South Elmsall [West Yorkshire] warehouse for their summer sale and another 300 this summer.
“They were recruited in Poland and charged £50 to find them accommodation. The advantage to Next? They get to avoid Agency Workers Regulations which apply after a candidate has been employed for over 12 weeks, so Polish temps end up considerably cheaper than the local workforce which includes many former Next employees.”
Mr Bryant’s planned speech does not single out any other companies, although he cites the tourism industry as a whole and claims: “I have heard horror tales of hotel management deliberately cutting hours of young British workers and adding hours to migrant workers who do not complain about deductions from earnings that almost certainly take people below the minimum wage.”


I think Chris Bryant lives in the UK, Penk.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Can't say I have ever heard a foreign accent in either Next or Tesco.