Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

[Mrs Tisi]

Here in Leicestershire, UKIP have grown from being a minority party to being real contenders in both Labour and Tory seats. People who think UKIP will just go away are wide of the mark.

 

[leedswolf]

Polish bricklayers are currently earning £1000 a week at the moment.

That's in London though isn't it? It is only recently that brickies' day rates have gone back up to 200 quid a day in London. There is a skills shortage now. There will be something like a 600k skills shortage in construction in the next couple of years. HS2 will need to employ an average of 7k workers per day! The skills shortage in construction is not attributable to immigration.

 

[Penk Wolf]

That's in London though isn't it? It is only recently that brickies' day rates have gone back up to 200 quid a day in London. There is a skills shortage now. There will be something like a 600k skills shortage in construction in the next couple of years. HS2 will need to employ an average of 7k workers per day! The skills shortage in construction is not attributable to immigration.

I'm sure it will filter through to the rest of the UK as the shortage isn't only in London.

No, quite the opposite, without the immigration we'd be struggling to complete the jobs and until the skills gap is bridged, immigration will need to continue.

 

[thehistorymakers]

That's in London though isn't it? It is only recently that brickies' day rates have gone back up to 200 quid a day in London. There is a skills shortage now. There will be something like a 600k skills shortage in construction in the next couple of years. HS2 will need to employ an average of 7k workers per day! The skills shortage in construction is not attributable to immigration.

The more people that come to live and work in the UK means we need more houses, more hospitals, more schools ect. A multinational construction companies dream.
The reality of what is happening is we are building more houses, but they are smaller and more expensive. Again great for the big construction company. Not so good for the buyer.
People are having to travel further to take their kids to schools, people are having to wait longer to see a consultant.
The answer of the neo liberals, is we need more doctors, skilled workers from abroad. Of course that is making the bigger companies richer, but it is making everything more expensive for the man in the street.
In short big multinational companies of course want immigration. But this is driving down the living standards of the average man in the street.
Of course, multinationals don't care about people, they care about money. Multinationals don't care about immigrants, they care about immigration. It means more money, more demand, so more expensive houses, food, fuel and of course more money to be made for the big multinational company. Lower wages and lower living standards for the vast majority of people.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Surely more houses been built will mean that prices don't increase as much?

Skilled labour is needed that is fact and until the skills shortage gap is bridged then companies can only look abroad. It's not only construction where we have a skills shortage.

What about the money spent on H&S and money spent on training? Surely, if all they cared about was money and not their people then we wouldn't have the safest place in the World to work?

 

[Templeton Peck]

The cause of those problems are not immigration.

The cost of housing is essentially a product of Thatcher selling off the social stock and not replenishing. Successive govts are to blame for not dealing with this in the years since. The other cause is that the easiest way for banks to make money is by creating debt so they made mortgages and credit cards easier to get which created a housing boom and ultimately the credit crunch. More social housing and greater regulation of the financial sector are the answers to those problems IMV, nout to do with immigration.

 

[leedswolf]

Surely more houses been built will mean that prices don't increase as much?

Skilled labour is needed that is fact and until the skills shortage gap is bridged then companies can only look abroad. It's not only construction where we have a skills shortage.

What about the money spent on H&S and money spent on training? Surely, if all they cared about was money and not their people then we wouldn't have the safest place in the World to work?

Indeed. The major construction companies do more than construct. They are also conscious about the legacy of their work. The days of turning up, making a mess and fucking off are long gone. They look to use local labour, local suppliers, etc. Considerate Constructor being an example of this.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Surely more houses been built will mean that prices don't increase as much?

Skilled labour is needed that is fact and until the skills shortage gap is bridged then companies can only look abroad. It's not only construction where we have a skills shortage.

So according to that we need more skilled workers from abroad, to build more houses for the people who haven't got a house, or can't afford one.Will we need to bring more immigrants to build houses for the people who are coming to build them?

You see, before this policy of open borders started, when I was a teenager I could get a flat or a council house.It is true that Thatcher sold off many council houses, but it is also true that there are thousands of (sheltered housing houses) being lived in by immigrants.
I have said before, that if someone is good enough to live in this country, they should be treated the same as the people who were born here. Sadly, that isn't always the case.
The feedback I'm getting from this thread is...We need more builders because we want to build more houses, because there are more and more people living in the country.
We need more doctors and medical staff, because we have more patients, because we have more people coming into the country. We need more teachers, because there are more children, because there are more people coming into the country.
So, we need more roads, because there is more traffic, because there are more people.We will need to bring more people into the country to build more roads, because we haven't got enough workers who can build roads. We need more lorry drivers to move all the extra products, that need to be moved, because we have more and more people.We need more houses, to house the new doctors, teachers, road builders, lorry drivers and house builders ect ect ect. All great if you are a big multinational company. Not so good for the man in the street.
My question is should it stop and when should it stop? Should there be a cut off point?
Before all this started, when I was younger, people could get a council house if they needed it. People could survive with one job. You could go on your summer holidays. We didn't have to work around the clock. You could sit and have a meal with your family and read your kids there bedtime story.
I know if you are part of the system., you went to a good school, you work in a warm office, you work for a big building constructor in an office capacity or you work in IT, you might be doing ok, but the vast majority of people suffer and have had their living standards slashed. They can't see that anything will change under the same old Tory or Labour governments.

 

[Del Woppio]

We don't need European construction workers because house building is at a monstrously quicker rate than it was 20 years ago. We need them because a massive portion of my generation didn't want to be construction workers, or engineers, or sparkies. That wasn't the case 20 years ago.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

You can't have your capitalism and eat it. Capitalism is based on the principle of free markets, the more the freedom iof the markets are regulated the less like capitalism it becomes. Politicians do not run capitalism, business does so it really doesn't matter what political party you vote for because by and large they are all slaves to the same economic theory.

 

[Templeton Peck]

You can't have your capitalism and eat it. Capitalism is based on the principle of free markets, the more the freedom iof the markets are regulated the less like capitalism it becomes. Politicians do not run capitalism, business does so it really doesn't matter what political party you vote for because by and large they are all slaves to the same economic theory.

Indeed. Poor countries are great when you can outsource labour to them for 3p a week but when their citizens try to reverse the process and come in search of higher wages and living standards they become a problem. Never understood why those on the right are anti-immigration as they are the ultimate example of Tebbit's 'get on yer bike' mantra.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Unsustainable development, building for today with no thought for the future. Taking your brothers piece of cake, when he isn't watching. Running and running, not knowing where you are going to. Short term gain, with no thought for the people who will live on these islands in the future.

 

[Del Woppio]

What the fuck are you blathering on about?!

 

[thehistorymakers]

Indeed. Poor countries are great when you can outsource labour to them for 3p a week but when their citizens try to reverse the process and come in search of higher wages and living standards they become a problem. Never understood why those on the right are anti-immigration as they are the ultimate example of Tebbit's 'get on yer bike' mantra.

The immigrants aren't the problem. It is the multinational companies that are looking for short term gain at the expense of future generations that live on theses islands. It is unsustainable development. Running and running, with out knowing where you are going to.

 

[thehistorymakers]

What the $#@! are you blathering on about?!

Unsustainable development.look it up.

 

[Del Woppio]

I'm well aware, thanks. Quite where your running and cake pinching metaphor works is beyond me. I'll look that up in The Big Book Of Blatherings by A. Hypocrite.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I'm well aware, thanks. Quite where your running and cake pinching metaphor works is beyond me. I'll look that up in The Big Book Of Blatherings by A. Hypocrite.

Hypocrite? First time I have ever been called that. Back up your arguments with ideas and opinions, not insults. They say more about you than me.

 

[Del Woppio]

It's not an insult. Or at least not intended to be. You, as a man choosing to live in a country different to that of your birth, have a very negative opinion on immigration, its impact and the politics behind it. I'm not saying hypocrisy is bad, but if that isn't it, I'm not sure what is.

In the last few pages you've suggested that immigration is behind a lack of jobs, whilst simultaneously being behind an industry crisis that can't fill jobs from the indigenous population, and is forced to look abroad.

 

[thehistorymakers]

It's not an insult. Or at least not intended to be. You, as a man choosing to live in a country different to that of your birth, have a very negative opinion on immigration, its impact and the politics behind it. I'm not saying hypocrisy is bad, but if that isn't it, I'm not sure what is.

In the last few pages you've suggested that immigration is behind a lack of jobs, whilst simultaneously being behind an industry crisis that can't fill jobs from the indigenous population, and is forced to look abroad.

I can live abroad and still have an opinion on mass immigration. If you have read my posts I have always defended the immigrant as a person and there rights to be treated the same as we are.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I'm well aware, thanks. Quite where your running and cake pinching metaphor works is beyond me. I'll look that up in The Big Book Of Blatherings by A. Hypocrite.

The taking your brothers piece of cake when he isn't watching metaphor, is on about the multinationals who use up all the resources, without any thought for the future.
The running and running, without knowing where they are going metaphor, is relating to multinationals who keep building and building and getting bigger and bigger. They don't think about the future or the consequences for the people who have to live there.

Maybe Gandhi put it better.

“The earth, the air, the land and the water are not an inheritance from our fore fathers but a loan from our children. So we have to handover to them at least as it was handed over to us.”