Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

[Paddingtonwolf]

The problem is, that many people are blaming immigration for the lowering of their living standards, their finding it more difficult to find work, the increase in rent in the private sector, for waiting lists at hospitals and the general decline in their living standards in the UK.
They don't trust the Conservative party or Labour on immigration. They talk a lot , but don't do much.
Of course UKIP are a two policy party. They won't win the elections, but there is a distinct possibility that they could join forces with the Tory party then immigration and Europe would be right up there in UKIP's bargaining power, to let the Conservative party form a government.

All valid points, without doubt. However, you do need a few MPs to be involved in the balance of power. Although Liberal support has been demolished by joining this coalition (and for that Nick Clegg should be ashamed), they still have a few seats that should be safe. They will lose MPs but not all of them.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Therein lies the problem with the Lib Dems getting into bed with the Tories. People who naturally gravitate to the former are invariably diametrically opposed to the latter. How to chuck away 20+ years of steady progress overnight as they've disenchanted virtually everyone now. Their traditional ideas of social democracy are quite close to mine but there is no chance of me voting for them next year.

I would say that over half of my friends share your sentiments about the Liberal Democratic party. They had voted for them all their lives. They all say they would never vote for them again for going into government with the Tory party.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Absolutely. As a Conservative voter, I was staggered that Clegg made the decision. For a long-term view of Liberal chances it would actually have been better if Cameron had limped over the line. I can guarantee the Liberal percentage of the vote would be higher now had that been the case.

You just can't get into bed with a political opposite and not piss off your core support. Unless you are utterly dominant in that partnership like Cameron is and use the weaker party as the scapegoat to deflect criticism.

 

[thehistorymakers]

The only way the Liberals could ever get back any credibility with their core support, is by going into power with Labour. I doubt they will get the chance in the near future.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The SNP will definitely go in with Labour as Nicola Sturgeon has said she wouldn't consider a coalition with Cameron

 

[thehistorymakers]

The SNP will definitely go in with Labour as Nicola Sturgeon has said she wouldn't consider a coalition with Cameron

I agree with that, but the SNP will be taking seats off Labour in Scotland in the first place.

 

[visage]

The problem is, that many people are blaming immigration for the lowering of their living standards, their finding it more difficult to find work, the increase in rent in the private sector, for waiting lists at hospitals and the general decline in their living standards in the UK.
They don't trust the Conservative party or Labour on immigration. They talk a lot , but don't do much.
Of course UKIP are a two policy party. They won't win the elections, but there is a distinct possibility that they could join forces with the Tory party then immigration and Europe would be right up there in UKIP's bargaining power, to let the Conservative party form a government.

A tory UKIP coalition would be almost impossible. UKIP would bring at most 3 MPs to the table, but would demand huge amounts.

 

[thehistorymakers]

A tory UKIP coalition would be almost impossible. UKIP would bring at most 3 MPs to the table, but would demand huge amounts.

But with a mandate of nearly 19% of the vote, that has to count for something in a democracy. I wonder where the Lib Dems stand now on PR?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It counts for nothing in first past the post.

 

[Tony Towner]

Much as I don't think UKIP will end up with more than 4 MP's, Labour need to recognise the threat they pose to their core vote and make people aware that they are the most right wing party in mainstream UK politics. The fact that traditional Labour voters are considering voting for them based purely on immigration is ridiculous and they really need to be all over it. The problem is that you he leader doesn't appeal to the traditional core vote

 

[thehistorymakers]

Much as I don't think UKIP will end up with more than 4 MP's, Labour need to recognise the threat they pose to their core vote and make people aware that they are the most right wing party in mainstream UK politics. The fact that traditional Labour voters are considering voting for them based purely on immigration is ridiculous and they really need to be all over it. The problem is that you he leader doesn't appeal to the traditional core vote

39% of Labour voters have deep concerns about immigration.That is a shocking statistic for the Labour party.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Is it though?

Do 39% of the general population have similar concerns, or does that figure really stand out among the labour vote? Next question (in that case) is, do labour have a coherent policy on immigration that their supporters agree with, and that the party communicates readily and well. That is where labour must work.

By contrast, I would happily suggest that more than 39% of UKIP voters have concerns about the economy or the NHS. Those are areas where UKIP has absolutely nothing coherent.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Is it though?

Do 39% of the general population have similar concerns, or does that figure really stand out among the labour vote? Next question (in that case) is, do labour have a coherent policy on immigration that their supporters agree with, and that the party communicates readily and well. That is where labour must work.

By contrast, I would happily suggest that more than 39% of UKIP voters have concerns about the economy or the NHS. Those are areas where UKIP has absolutely nothing coherent.

A much higher percentage of the population have deep concerns about immigration. Over 90% UKIP voters and over 70% of Tory voters . I would have expected those figueres, but was shocked by 39% of existing labour supporters, never mind those who have already changed to be UKIP voters.

http://ukgeneralelection2015.blogspot.com.es/2014/10/yougov-what-concerns-voter.html

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Thanks. I really don't think it is a shocking statistic for labour then.

 

[lemonjelly]

The problem is, that many people are blaming immigration for the lowering of their living standards, their finding it more difficult to find work, the increase in rent in the private sector, for waiting lists at hospitals and the general decline in their living standards in the UK.
They don't trust the Conservative party or Labour on immigration. They talk a lot , but don't do much.
Of course UKIP are a two policy party. They won't win the elections, but there is a distinct possibility that they could join forces with the Tory party then immigration and Europe would be right up there in UKIP's bargaining power, to let the Conservative party form a government.

Should these "many people" of whom you refer really blame immigrants though?
Should they be angry at Piotr, the pole, working on a building site, for a construction company, earning a wage, building things, paying tax & NI.
Or should they blame these huge multi nationals, who expect a fully trained workforce, but don't want to pay for their training. Use our transport infrastructure, paid for by taxpayers, but don't want to pay for it themselves. Want the taxpayer funded NHS to heal & nurse their sick workforce, but don't want to pay for it. & also want us to subsidise the piss poor wages they pay via housing benefits and tax credits. Oh, and when they fail they want us to bail them out.

All whilst not paying any income tax.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Should these "many people" of whom you refer really blame immigrants though?
Should they be angry at Piotr, the pole, working on a building site, for a construction company, earning a wage, building things, paying tax & NI.
Or should they blame these huge multi nationals, who expect a fully trained workforce, but don't want to pay for their training. Use our transport infrastructure, paid for by taxpayers, but don't want to pay for it themselves. Want the taxpayer funded NHS to heal & nurse their sick workforce, but don't want to pay for it. & also want us to subsidise the piss poor wages they pay via housing benefits and tax credits. Oh, and when they fail they want us to bail them out.

All whilst not paying any income tax.

I agree 100% with your post. So we both know that the main parties have been letting this happen and have no plans to stop it. Maybe UKIP voters see a UKIP vote is the only option they have to stop it. Maybe they don't care so much for other policies. Maybe in a sick way a UKIP vote is not a direct vote against immigrants, but the multinationals who are ruling our country without a mandate. Who are putting short term gain before the people of England.
Like I said, I'm not a UKIP supporter, but maybe people are turning to them, because the main parties are not listening to the electorate.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Lemonjelly, I hope you don't mind, but who are you going to vote for and why? I have written in an earlier post about the multinationals being to blame and not the immigrants, who only come to better their lives.
I will be coming back to the UK to vote and at this time I am undecided.
Sorry to ask a personal question and will understand if you don't reply to my question.

 

[visage]

Absolutely. As a Conservative voter, I was staggered that Clegg made the decision. For a long-term view of Liberal chances it would actually have been better if Cameron had limped over the line. I can guarantee the Liberal percentage of the vote would be higher now had that been the case.

You just can't get into bed with a political opposite and not piss off your core support. Unless you are utterly dominant in that partnership like Cameron is and use the weaker party as the scapegoat to deflect criticism.

The modern LibDems are no longer the opposite of the tories though. They're all orange bookers, who prize economic liberalism over social liberalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Book:_Reclaiming_Liberalism

 

[Penk Wolf]

39% of Labour voters have deep concerns about immigration.That is a shocking statistic for the Labour party.

I would say 100% of Labour voters have concern over immigration, but what % of that 100% have immigration as their top concern?

 

[Penk Wolf]

Should these "many people" of whom you refer really blame immigrants though?
Should they be angry at Piotr, the pole, working on a building site, for a construction company, earning a wage, building things, paying tax & NI.
Or should they blame these huge multi nationals, who expect a fully trained workforce, but don't want to pay for their training. Use our transport infrastructure, paid for by taxpayers, but don't want to pay for it themselves. Want the taxpayer funded NHS to heal & nurse their sick workforce, but don't want to pay for it. & also want us to subsidise the piss poor wages they pay via housing benefits and tax credits. Oh, and when they fail they want us to bail them out.

All whilst not paying any income tax.

Polish bricklayers are currently earning £1000 a week at the moment.

It's easy to say that the multinationals aren't paying the money, when in truth, they are, the problem is there is a skills shortage in the UK and it's going to take a long time to rectify it.

The other issue is that although a lot of the multinationals are prepared to pay good wages they are also employing professional buyers, who are employed to drill down the price of goods they buy, which in turn means that the only thing their supplier can reduce to meet these demands for reductions, are wages.