Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

[thehistorymakers]

Do we have to go round this again?. Read back a few pages and look at Vis's comments about the survey being skewed by the older age of non-EU immigrants and it not taking into account all their years of tax and NI payments.

Repeating the same tired old arguments is getting dull.

Or you only want to hear what suits your political views.

 

[visage]

Ah, so it's your opinion rather than anything published? As there is no net benefit once you take in the social issues and service capacity problems.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration

 

[Tredman]

Or you only want to hear what suits your political views.

Or it's just dull and repetitive...

 

[thehistorymakers]

Or it's just dull and repetitive...

That's the second time you have said that. Hahaha

 

[Tredman]

That's the second time you have said that. Hahaha

That was kinda the point..

 

[thehistorymakers]

That was kinda the point..

I know. But it was still funny.

 

[thehistorymakers]

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration

Considering all immigrants who were living in the UK over the years between 1995 and 2011, a period over which the net fiscal contribution of natives was negative (and accumulated to about £591bn), EEA immigrants contributed 10% more than natives (in relative terms), while non-EEA immigrants’ contributions were almost 9% lower.


So non EU immigrants cost the British tax payer according to your link.
EU immigrants are doing quite nicely thank you, but English people are having a right bad time according to that link.

Backs up my argument that people born in the UK have seen their living standards fall.

So immigration has been a benefit to who? Yes, the multinationals, not the man in the street.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Immigrants from outside of the EU have cost this country billions. It is from within in the EU that there is a net benefit. All immigration put together comes out about even.

A bank can have a net benefit, but it's customers have to pay more bank charges. So there the bank is better off, but the customer isn't.

My honest opinion is that British people are not better off now, than 30 years ago. Both governments' immigration policies have stretched the infrastructure of this country to breaking point.
Housing shortage, traffic, schools, hospitals, ect. The answer of we have a skill shortage, so we need to bring more immigrants is laughable. The reason that the infrastructure is so stretched, is because there are too many people. Maybe the government should spend more money on educating the people already in the UK. Spend more on training in the areas where we have a shortage of skills.

Sounding a bit UKIP there, buddy.

Out of interest, how long ago did you move to Spain?

 

[So Long Architect]

So let's be clear - in your view THM, immigration is the fundamental cause of problems with housing, traffic, schools and hopsitals (and "etc" so presumably more besides).

To take one of those items - hospitals - you don't think it might be a little more complicated and involve some other factors, such as an ageing population - http://www.parliament.uk/business/p...ney-in-public-services/the-ageing-population/

"Growing numbers of elderly people also have an impact on the NHS, where average spending for retired households is nearly double that for non-retired households: in 2007/08 the average value of NHS services for retired households was £5,200 compared with £2,800 for non-retired. These averages conceal variation across older age groups, with the cost of service provision for the most elderly likely to be much greater than for younger retired people. The Department of Health estimates that the average cost of providing hospital and community health services for a person aged 85 years or more is around three times greater than for a person aged 65 to 74 years."

Or traffic. Again, perhaps things are a little more complex than just more immigrants = more congestion - http://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Market_failures/Road_congestion.html

 

[thehistorymakers]

Sounding a bit UKIP there, buddy.

Out of interest, how long ago did you move to Spain?

No Mark. I have always said I would never vote UKIP. Over 70% of the British population, say we need to cut immigration. I would defend any immigrant as a person who is fit to come to the UK, to be treated the same and receive the same benefits as the the people who already live there. That isn't happening now.. New immigrants from outside the EU have to have private health cover.I am against that, it disgusts me. If people are good enough to come here, they are good enough to be treated with dignity.
I know a nurse from Malaysia. She works over 60 hours a week , in a private clinic. 30% of her wages go on childcare., She receives no help and not the same benefits as an English person. That is wrong.

I also so know a nurse, who can't get full time work. She is British. She has to receive state benefits to top up her wages. She gets state benefit for child care as she doesn't earn enough.

To me, what is wrong here, is that the Malaysian nurse gets treated differently(exploited) and the state ( your taxes ) have to top up somebodies wages so she can afford to live.

Surely the solution would have been to employ the British nurse in the first place and pay her a decent wage, instead of using cheap labour?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Sounding a bit UKIP there, buddy.

Out of interest, how long ago did you move to Spain?

No Mark. I have always said I would never vote UKIP. Over 70% of the British population, say we need to cut immigration.
I would defend any immigrant as a person who is fit to come to the UK, to be treated the same and receive the same benefits as the the people who already live there. That isn't happening now
. New immigrants from outside the EU have to have private health cover. I am against that, it disgusts me. If people are good enough to come here, they are good enough to be treated with dignity.
I know a nurse from Malaysia. She works over 60 hours a week , in a private clinic. 30% of her wages go on childcare., She receives no help and not the same benefits as an English person. That is wrong.

I also so know a nurse, who can't get full time work. She is British. She has to receive state benefits to top up her wages. She gets state benefit for child care as she doesn't earn enough.

To me, what is wrong here, is that the Malaysian nurse gets treated differently(exploited) and the state ( your taxes ) have to top up somebodies wages so she can afford to live.

Surely the solution would have been to employ the British nurse in the first place and pay her a decent wage, instead of using cheap labour?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

No Mark. I have always said I would never vote UKIP. Over 70% of the British population, say we need to cut immigration. I would defend any immigrant as a person who is fit to come to the UK, to be treated the same and receive the same benefits as the the people who already live there. That isn't happening now.. New immigrants from outside the EU have to have private health cover.I am against that, it disgusts me. If people are good enough to come here, they are good enough to be treated with dignity.
I know a nurse from Malaysia. She works over 60 hours a week , in a private clinic. 30% of her wages go on childcare., She receives no help and not the same benefits as an English person. That is wrong.

I also so know a nurse, who can't get full time work. She is British. She has to receive state benefits to top up her wages. She gets state benefit for child care as she doesn't earn enough.

To me, what is wrong here, is that the Malaysian nurse gets treated differently(exploited) and the state ( your taxes ) have to top up somebodies wages so she can afford to live.

Surely the solution would have been to employ the British nurse in the first place and pay her a decent wage, instead of using cheap labour?

What if the English nurse isn't as good at their job as the Malaysian one? Perhaps that is why they are struggling to find full time employment?

Again, out of interest, how long since you moved over to Spain?

 

[lemonjelly]

Lemonjelly, I hope you don't mind, but who are you going to vote for and why? I have written in an earlier post about the multinationals being to blame and not the immigrants, who only come to better their lives.
I will be coming back to the UK to vote and at this time I am undecided.
Sorry to ask a personal question and will understand if you don't reply to my question.

I'm not sure yet.

I think they're more angry at labour and the Tories for not doing anything to change any of it in the last decade...

If you mean the populace are angry with governments for doing nothing about immigration, that's nowhere near the point I'm making. At least the immigrants contribute, whereas the multinationals do nothing but take. They're the real cost burden.
If you mean the populace is angry at governments doing nothing about multinationals paying little/no taxes etc, then I think you're wrong. I see no political action here. Indeed the only concessions have come about because marketing depts have suggested the company looks very bad not paying tax, & should show a little penance. Nothing to do with the coalition or others. & this will be adjusted soon enough...

 

[Penk Wolf]

Immigrants from outside of the EU have cost this country billions. It is from within in the EU that there is a net benefit. All immigration put together comes out about even.

A bank can have a net benefit, but it's customers have to pay more bank charges. So there the bank is better off, but the customer isn't.

My honest opinion is that British people are not better off now, than 30 years ago. Both governments' immigration policies have stretched the infrastructure of this country to breaking point.
Housing shortage, traffic, schools, hospitals, ect. The answer of we have a skill shortage, so we need to bring more immigrants is laughable. The reason that the infrastructure is so stretched, is because there are too many people. Maybe the government should spend more money on educating the people already in the UK. Spend more on training in the areas where we have a shortage of skills.

You do realise that if we 'Sent em all back', we'd still be getting the ones that cost us billions?

People aren't better off than 30 years ago? Are you for real? I had to wear Gola trainers and a Slazenger jumper 30 years ago.

I'm pretty sure if you're not in work there would be plenty of free training courses if people wanted to go on them. If I wasn't happy in what I was doing I'd be doing a night course in Plumbing.

 

[thehistorymakers]

We can keep telling British people they are better off now, than before. Telling them they have never had it so good. But they live in the real world. Of course some people are better off, but the living standards of the average person in the UK have fallen.

UKIP are doing well because many people blame immigration for the fall in their living standards. The Tory party and Labour are lurching to the right because many of their supporters think the same.
I don't blame immigrants, but multinationals and big business. At the end of the day all the main political parties in the UK should be ashamed of bowing to greed and short term gain for a few, at the expense of the country and the vast majority of it's population.

 

[thehistorymakers]

You do realise that if we 'Sent em all back', we'd still be getting the ones that cost us billions?

People aren't better off than 30 years ago? Are you for real? I had to wear Gola trainers and a Slazenger jumper 30 years ago.

I'm pretty sure if you're not in work there would be plenty of free training courses if people wanted to go on them. If I wasn't happy in what I was doing I'd be doing a night course in Plumbing.

Where have I ever talked about sending people back?
How old are you Penk?

 

[Penk Wolf]

Where have I ever talked about sending people back?
How old are you Penk?

I never said you did, I was commenting on your response to the net benefit.

38.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I never said you did, I was commenting on your response to the net benefit.

38.

So you would have been 8, 30 years ago.
You can buy Gola trainers and Slazenger sweaters at sportdirect, if you are feeling nostalgic.( The quality isn't the same though.)

 

[So Long Architect]

Is there any evidence showing that, in general, people are worse off than they were 30 years ago? My personal experience (completely anecdotal so as worthwhile/worthless as anyone's) is that the living conditions of me, my family and pretty much everyone I know are vastly better than they were in 1984.

It seems there's some evidence of a decline in living standards in the last ten years - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f0dfe596-84fd-11e3-a793-00144feab7de.html#axzz3Lxzetnni

But wouldn't this be a result of the *global* financial crisis rather than directly caused by immigration?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Is there any evidence showing that, in general, people are worse off than they were 30 years ago? My personal experience (completely anecdotal so as worthwhile/worthless as anyone's) is that the living conditions of me, my family and pretty much everyone I know are vastly better than they were in 1984.

It seems there's some evidence of a decline in living standards in the last ten years - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f0dfe596-84fd-11e3-a793-00144feab7de.html#axzz3Lxzetnni

But wouldn't this be a result of the *global* financial crisis rather than directly caused by immigration?

Happy for you SLA.

Big business always blames the global crisis, when they impose a wage freeze, or your rent, fuel, heating bills or food bills go up.